Embracing a Consumer-Centric Approach to Product Development

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

A lot of companies — even the big players — make the mistake of developing a product in search of a problem.


But today’s guest, Doug Roberson, Chief Technology Officer at Alterco Robotics US, advocates for taking a consumer-centric approach to product development. In this episode, he shares why listening and interacting with customers is the key to delivering a viable outcome that actually solves their problems.


What we talked about:

- Honing a consumer-centric approach to product development

- Ensuring there’s a large enough audience for a product

- Lessons from a development cycle without a viable outcome

- The importance of saying no to superfluous stuff

Check out Doug’s podcast, Make IoT Simple.

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The most important thing I learned wasthat, just because you have something that works, it doesn't mean that thebill of materials is going to equal, a profitable product. You are listening to over the Air Iotconnected devices and the journey brought to you by vary in each episode. We have sharpunfiltered conversations with executives about their IOT journeys,the mistakes they made, the lessons they learned and what they wish they'dknown when they started and welcome back to over the Air Iotconnected devices and the journey today, I'm joined by C to of Altero DougRoberson we're going to discuss data security and consumer centric productdevelopment. Doug thanks for being on the show, thanks for having me so dug.For those who don't know, can you tell us a little bit about ultrice surealtcar robotics is located in Sefele they're, the manufacturer of the Shellybrand of IOT products. We also have an office that we load that we opened inLas Vegas and January to thousand and twenty just before the pandemic at andthat's where I operate out of cool. You know we're to talk a little bitabout product development today, but what's like one thing that mightsurprise someone about the taxin in Bulgaria or the engineering work forcethat you engage with over there. Well, the first thing that I noticed is theculture is completely different than with North American companies. I'veI've worked with here. It's always been sort of individual achievement. Youknow I'm the star of this team, whereas the group that I'm working with noweveryone contributes to the team, they think team first and me. Second, it's avery warm environment compared to what I've worked in in the past and it'svery successful. That's awesome to hear one of thethings that you mentioned in the pre interview that I thought was reallyinteresting was and, of course I think it was. It was so interesting that webasically built the theme for this episode around it, but you guys isapproach to product development. You know you guys take a very consumer,centric approach, one of the mistakes that we see a very a lot and you seethe big guys make it as often as anyone else. They say hey: what can we connectlike technologically? What is connectible and then you know, let's go,let's go figure it out whether or not like, there's a market for it or it'svaluable for the consumers. You guys have a very different take on that. Canyou talk about how Altar Co thinks about product development? And you knowexamples of maybe a time that you said Hey. We could do this, but we don'tneed to there isn't value for the consumer right. Typically, our products,we've got three different kinds: we've got battery operated, sensors, we havestandard consumer products, smart plugs and bulbs, and those are reallyimportant products, especially for the consumer, but our main product line orrelays and what's important there is...

...the form factor, is very versatile. Itlets you use one device in a great number of use cases so, for example,our flagship product, so to speak, the shelly one it's inexpensive, but it'sstill very high quality. It works with a range of voltages, twelve old, Othousand and four to sixty vault TC, one ten to two thirty volt AC andthat's plus eminus. Ten per cent and the reason why that's a special productis because you can use it in garage door, openers with appliances, singlepole, lights, three ways: switches electrical outlets, sprinklers well,pumped Sun Pumps, I've used it to control contractors to controlappliances, got a lot of different ways. You can use it. So I from a consumer centric standpoint,you give them an inexpensive tool that has a great deal of functionality andyou can use it in many different use cases, that's consumer centric, but asfar as the development of products, our CEO is kind of rare, in that he spendsthree or four hours a day on social media, interacting with our customers.That's something you don't hear a lot about. For example, we've got a groupon face book, a Community Support Group with approximately thirty thousandmembers and he's in there for several hours a day, also on forms and otherplaces. Picking up ideas from customers he's helping them with suggestions onhow to accomplish their goals and also listening to them when they come upwith problems were very responsive to correcting bugs that our users find theshelly one that I mentioned earlier, debute in August of two thousand andeighteen, and to the best of my knowledge, we've had sixty three firmwere updates. A lot of those were feature updates, adding new tools andthat sort of update, but we have regular bug fixes as well. So if youlisten to your customers, you find out what their pain points are, and youpresent them a solution. You fix. Whatever problems, come up in yourproduct, you're, going to have a much better customer experience than say acompany that has a department of Engineers that sit around wondering.What can we look at in our catalogue that we can possibly connect, or youhave a company that produces a product line and they don't update it for threeyears, I recently had some some lights, whichis that I removed from Prior Home Automation, stall that I'd done and themanufacturer hadn't touched them since two thousand and sixteen the same exactproducts, same exact, firmer version, no changes, it's kind of hard toadvance and keep up with what customers need when you've got a static product yeah. I think one of the things thatjumped out of me, when I was kind of looking through your product portfolio,is how you've built the flexibility for your end customers to really adapt yourproducts to an almost infinite spectrum of applications, and I guess thatthat's obviously one of the strength of the props that you've developed I'd becurious to know of how you guys have developed tool sets or air faces thatmake that process easier for your...

...customers and and how they adapt yourproducts of their specific applications. The first thing you've got the physicaldimensions of the products, they're small and when I say small, I mean tiny.If you take a couple of oreo cookies and stack them on top of each other,that's larger than the Shelly one. So this can fit into a gang box behindyou know, and you know, a standard size, gang box Bunda light switch, even adecorator tell switch or an electrical outlet and the installer can still meetvolume requirements for code. You know it's very easy to fit thisinto the space, especially when you compare it to say your larger switches,the ZIG bez waves, which is their very heavy duty and their long, lasting, butthey're big and it's hard to fit them in the box. So the first thing for versatility andis the tooling it so that it fits what the customer needs. But then you've gotgenerational products. You've got products that are built on a sharedfeature set. You know that when you're setting up a new shelly product youconnect to it the same way you connect to any other shelly product. It's goingto have the same menu options for configurations. It'll have specialtyfeatures that are unique to that device. For example, a temperature censor isn'tgoing to have the same controls as a dimmer but they're going to have thesame interface they're going to have the same AP when you're connecting toit they're going to have the same web server built in. They are going tosupport rest they're, going to support MT and coat so you've got a consistentexperience across the products on the back side, the engineers theyare able to reuse code, they're able to reuse the radio for our module. Youknow everything is based on the Espado hundred and sixty six that we aremoving to ESP thirty two, but when you're using the same module, we mayadapt the antenna for the specific application. But we've got a lot of experience withthis very specific processor. We know how it's going to work with thecomponents that we regularly use. We put temperature censors in a lot of ourproducts, so we know how that works were very familiar with the device. Weknow what, if we have to make a swap in components because of shortages like alot of companies are experiencing right now, we're very familiar with what ournumber two is and what's number three at bat and so on. So the experience iswhat makes it easy. We were originally saying that hardware is hard and itreally is, but with time it becomes a lot easier. The experience is whatmakes it easy you know dog. You just mentioned that you put a tempt censor.You guys put it to him censoring a lot of your products. I just installed anest Webcam yesterday I know you mentioned in the pre interview you of ayoung child. I have a young child as well they're great devices. To put youknow over the the crib. I was really surprised todiscover that there is not a tempt...

...censor in that product and, of course,we're not in the practice of poking at Google on this podcast because we'dlike to stay on the air and not have our hosting removed. But I am curious,like you know, that seemed like such a slam. Dunk, I'm sure there's a reasonwhy it's not there, but on the other side of the spectrum, one of the thingswe see in product development land a lot that has sunk more than a fewbattleships is this notion of very vocal minorities that are passionateabout a product being developed that satisfies some use case that they'vegot and the passion a company can be. Can can mistake that passion for therebeing a broad audience. You know a small number of extremely passionatepeople are very easy to mistake, for you know a large audience. What is thatfiltering? Look like for you? How do you ensure that the things that you'rebuilding satisfy a broad enough audience that you guys can actuallymake some money and have a successful productt versus you know the vocalminority issue? Well, you know again: We've got different product lines, so you're going to always have consumersthat are not comfortable installing our relays for those customers, we've got smartbulbs, we've got plugs, but when we're developing you know a really specificproduct. Normally, it's going to be in a really form factor, and the reasonfor that is because it's so universal you can install it in any electricalcircuit, and so that allows us to fill that narrow use case while still havinga product that can be used for others. And the great thing is that a friend ofmine always says this electrons don't care. So what I mean by that is itdoesn't matter if you're, installing your relay in a ceiling fan or an atticfan or if you're, connecting it to control contactor, that's going to turnoff thermo coupler on a bearing. You know there something that's picking uptemperature and it says Whoa. This is too hot. Any of these use cases are allvalid use cases. You just try to make sure that when you're meeting therequirements for this one vocal group you're not shooting yourself in thefoot by making something- that's too narrow, M and an easy way to do. That is to add it asa software feature to an existing product just pulling on that thread alittle bit you mentioned, you know having prior to being an ultra co Latininitiative that resulted in a working product, but nota viable, marketable outcome. Can you talk about the scars issue that youbuilt up there like give us a little background on the concept how it playedout? What worked? What didn't some of your learnings along the way, becauseit feels like that was very impact ful in kind of dugs journey as a connecteddevice executive in this space? Well, absolutely it was a great learningexperience and while the investment that I made in developing the productdidn't have a financial return in terms of sales, the education that I had fromthat can't be paid for. You just cannot...

...get that from anything besides goingout and doing it, the product was a wifie connected battery poweredsecurity censor. The use case was for a single point of entry or a single pointthat you need to secure and it would connect to professional monitoringthrough the Internet. There are a number of them that have you know, CPAand you can, you know fairly easily set that up, but at the time there weren'ta lot of really solid wifie dorn window sensors, so I had one it had a red switch. It had lithium batteries. Ihad temperature censor in it. You know I was very proud of the work I put in.I learned a lot, but the most important thing I learned was that, just becauseyou have something that works, it doesn't mean that the bill of materialsis going to equal, a profitable product. This was going to be too expensive toretail yeah, I mean it's fascinating. You'vegot you've, got Elan musk out here. You know basically saying don't go tocollege all. The information is available for free to educate yourselfin you know whatever area you're passionate about and in a way like.That's basically what you're saying you know: you've gone through this processand learned a ton to be fair. I do have to agree with him. I'm acollege drop out, you know and if I'd stayed in, I wanted to get a degree inphilosophy I wanted to teach and I'm in a completely different fieldand I'm self taught. So I see the point in that, but at the same time you don'tgo to college just to learn a particular skill. You can do that in atrade school you learn to you. You learn differencesin your point of view to other people. You learn other ways of thinking. Youhave a social experience as a young adult that you don't have when you'rein high school, because every day you go home to your family, really whatwhat the college experience should be is learning to be a productive memberof society. M Yeah, interesting and I think the extent to which that'shappening is is still an open debate. I agree look. Did you have a comment? Iguess I was just going to agree with that. It's kind of why you have a CORcurriculum in a university coming out of high school you're, just starting toget your feet under you as a human being and as an adult, and you don't,you might think you know what you want to do, but, as you explore, like kindof mandatory breadth across the broader range of topics than you were initiallyconsidering, you might find that hey, maybe be really passionate abouthistory or literature or whatever something that you never thought wasgoing to be. Your in you would be interested about, so I definitely agreewith that. You know. I think that we could. Actually you know if, as techleaders, if we did a better job of pushing for some basic education, howto balance a checkbook got to pay your taxes. How do youse turn signals? Ithink that e these are things that, as...

...leaders, we could sort of influence thepeople that interact with us of in terms of education. But you knowtelling people go to college, don't go to college. I think that's a personalchoice so, for those that don't know dug is based in Florida, and anyone whohas visited Florida is now nodding their head in understanding about histurn signal comment. I think I remember visiting Florida as ayounger man and being just astonished at how differently people drove therethan my home state of Texas and it felt a lot more like. Like a competition.You know, then you know, and if you, if you used yourturn signal, you were like reducing your ability to navigate effectively bytipping your hand about what you intended to do. Yeah is that theFlorida Two Thousand and twenty one, Oh yeah, it's a battlefield some days. Soone more question we do have to return to connected devices at some point orour entire audience will abandon me. But you mentioned wanting to pursue adegree in philosophy. Is Dug Robertson, the CETO a teacher. Do you think likedo you to what extent have you actually fulfilled that mission? For Yourself,you know. Actually, the probably the most rewarding part of my career was inthe s when I taught some continuing education classes. There were peoplewho were middle aged at that time who were transitioning from using addingmachines, and you know analog devices in their office work and they neededhelp transitioning to word excel, and so on. So I talked a really businessfocused to business centric, a version of classes on how to use theseapplications and remember in the S it was a way different world technologywas than its today and I have to say that the teaching experience seeingpeople learning something that I knew that they were going to go back and beable to keep their job. That was very rewarding for me, soevery opportunity I have to do any sort of teaching. I still do and believe itor not. My job gives me a lot of opportunities. That's great yeah I meanyou see. The most effective executives over and over are those that are reallyeffective at teaching. I think people think of it as a managing job, but,like the best ones are you know, I think, investing in the people aroundthem and working to make them better to some degree. That's what I really findfantastic about vary in the work that we do is that you see so many mistakesand lessons that various companies have made that, when you're introduced to anew company or a new team, that's trying to develop something you cankind of help them skirt around those mistakes and in a way you're teachingthem you're teaching that company. What you've learned from a cumulativeexperience, a bunch of other projects and much other teams have already beenthrough. So it's kind of that that same teaching philosophy push forward tolike teaching businesses and new teams are being built up. Yeah, that'sdefinitely true. I mean we spend a lot of time. I think trying to push thatforward for our clients do one of the things that you that we spent some timeon in the pre interview that I thought was really interesting was theimportance of saying no. You Know Luke...

...spent many years at Apple. I thinkapple might be the best company in the world at saying no effectively anddeliberately. What do you like? HOW DOES ALTER CO? Think about that? Howdoes dug think about that? Like talk a little bit about the importance of nowwhen developing connected devices and technology products? Well, from apersonal standpoint, I actually wish that I had had someone like very backin two thousand and seventeen when I was working on my project, someone whocould have said no you're not going to get the return that you're looking foron this M, but in terms of our product development, we we are very tightlyfocused on our road map. We have the products that we feel are going to bestsere of our customers and while we do get requests for things, for example,of very popular request is for White Label and if we were to start offeringlight label services for farm ware for or at for the cloud service, wewouldn't be able to offer the same level of service that we give to ourcustomers who are actually buying our brand of products. When you're talkingabout daily updates on a mobile, APP or weekly updates on various firm war, andthen you have to distribute that with someone else's branding, it becomes afull time company just to do that. Work and the return just isn't there. So wesay no a lot when it comes to request for White Label. L Go thinking back toyour time at Apple. What would you say is like the most powerful lesson youlearned about the word know from Apple. They seem to be exceptional at it. It'sactually one of the things that when you you get to a certain kind of higherlevel in the company, you do a lot of executive training about how you makedecisions and how you communicate those decisions to the team that sort ofthing and one of them. One of the core messages is say, no a lot and you knownobody misses CD drives and their computers and nobody misses flabby,drives their computers now, but at the time it was like y yeah. It was sayingno to a lot of customers that were banging the table, wanting those thingsto stay on there in their next mapbook, and I think that so being veryjudicious that you see it in the content that apple produces, whetherit's advertising, or whatever simplicity and cleanliness, and whatkind of only putting out there. What you need to do. What you're trying todo and saying no to a lot of superfluous stuff, just drivesimplicity and just removes a lot of failure modes, whether it's a technicalfailure mode or an application, fillure mode or whatever. If you don't putadditional complexity that you don't need, you solve a lot of problemsbefore you have them yeah. You know I'm blessed to have a wife that I'mextremely close with and everyone that meets her. You know, thinks she's thisfantastic woman, Luke it flirts with her shamelessly every time he sees her,which is, I think, wildly inappropriate. But when people ask me you know what'sthe secret to having a marriage, that is great, I say, look man. It allstarts with marrying the right person, and here is the only rule that matterswhen it comes to. You know finding the...

...right person to marry. If you can livewithout someone do it, and only if you can't should you get married and Ithink married people there's probably a lot of married people out there noddingtheir head right now saying yeah, okay, t t that checks out and we at vary.That's really our approach to product development. You know if you cat. Ifthe world can live without this product, then it should. You know, and only ifthis is something that is like there is a strong pull and need for it to existin the market place. Should you continue to the next square and spendyou know a million or five or whatever, to bring something into the world, andwhen viewed through that, you know, we find that that's powerful for answeringsome product market fit questions. Does the world absolutely need this? Does itsolve a problem that nothing else is solving? You know if you're not getting.Yes, is to these important questions, then you know maybe you're talking moreabout like a hobby or a neat thing that could be done versus something that youshould really go. Invest in. Does that resonate with like how you look atproduct development? Absolutely you've got to solve a problem in orderto sell a product. I mean, of course, they're always youknow their vanity products. There are hey. This is cool products, but toreally have something substantial you've got to you've got an ease, apain point m. you've got to have something that you're providing and that's actually what I ot is all about.It is the biggest tool we have today to solve problems and that's it coversevery industry, every market. It covers everything from home, automation, toutilities, to everything it can can change every part of our society. Wejust have to be empowered and we have to be smart about it so, but to let youchoose your own adventure. Next question can be the statement. Hardwareis hard, which I know your philosophy is hard were, can be hard or we cantalk about. You've mentioned firm ware, a bunch. We consider ourselves to bekind of firm where experts were super passionate about firm war land. Thereare people out there that may not understand the importance of securityin firm war, and it's also kind of an interesting topic. What what turns yourcrack? What direct you want to go? Well actually, if we can go into securityand I sort of lump data security and data privacy together M, because thereare two sides of the same coin. You want to keep your data secure. You wantto keep your information private, so a big concern that I have, and one of thethe reasons why I absolutely loved the Shelly brand before I even came to workhere, was that you have the option to use it entirely on its own. You don'thave to use the APP you don't have to connect it to the cloud and when you doconnect the products to the APP or to the cloud. No personal information isretained.

You have an email address, you have ahashed password, but no no identifying information about.You is retained. At a local level, the devices will store a generalizedlocation based on your Ip, so that you can use sunrise and sunset with offsetsin your scheduling, but other than that, there's nothing to say what part of theworld you're in or who you are. How many, how many friends you have over?There's, there's no information about you. So I think that that's an importantlesson for a lot of companies. Why are they collecting data they hope tomonetize on it? At that point, your product isn't theproduct your customer is the project. Companies need to make products andgive their consumers the option to just opt out completely. I want full local control the best datasecurity is local control. If you're not connected to a cloud, then there'sthere's no question of security. Everything is within your firewall, soI mean just to like comment on that. It seems like there there's a g like aground swell movement in that direction. It may be is coming late. You know, Ithink, there's the last fifteen years have seemed to underscore for a lot ofcompanies. That data is the cake itself. You know, Lukeis famous for saying it's nicing on the kick. It can't be the cake itself. Doyou? Do you think that the pendulum is swinging back the other way, or do youthink that we're still in a going in a problematic direction? I think we'restill going in a problematic direction, and part of that is because it'sconsumer driven a lot of people, don't realize that there are options and fora lot of people, the convenience of cloud control is great, but let it be achoice. That's that's the king on the topic. Okay, so you've we're talking about datasecurity, we're talking about data collection, just drilling into thesecurity. You know I mentioned firm ware. How do you guys? I know that's anarea like an area. It's not security as you intended to use the word, but likeit's a separate topic within security, how do you think about shipping firm,ware updates and ensuring that, like that's happening in a secure way? Well,we host our firmer on our cloud service. You have the option also to downloadthe firm where e and host it yourself so in terms of options and the abilityto choose. If you don't want your devices connecting. If you don't feelthat it's secure to connect to our cloud service grab the file host itlocally and then there's never a question, because again it's backbehind your firewall as a matter of fact, what you're not required to evenuse our firm war, it doesn't avoid the warranty if you install, open sourcefirm, were or write your own m again. It's all about choices andchoice is the greatest security yeah. I...

...think you certainly see that playingout in the in the broader spectrum of the space today with Apple Face Bookand those things and kind of the security of data and making your ownchoices about what you want to do with data as a company priority. You guyshave made that a company priority, and I certainly agree and support that Iwas kind of thinking about that when we were talking about how Iot has thispotential to change. Literally, every aspect of our lives is like everythingwe interact with, can now be connected together or to the Internet, orwhatever, and Security and privacy, and your ability to make decisions aboutwhat you want to expose. You're. Not Exposed is really important to makingpeople feel safe with that level of integration in every aspect of theirlives, and so I think that the point you're making about firmware security,Dava security and personal choice, make resonate well with me. It makes a lotof sense to me, yeah and, like I said it is entirely possible to offercomplete privacy to some customers but at the same time to offer full cloudservices- and you know, a combination of local control and cloud service, we're proving that so doug we'regetting to the end of our time. Together. I got two questions. They'rerelated. This is a lot of people's favorite portion of the podcast. What'sthe coolest product that you guys make in your opinion, and what's the coolestproduct that you don't make that nobody knows about, you knowproduct that you're, a big fan of okay, t e, the coolest product that we makehands down, has to be the shelly three Em. It's an energy monitoring productthat can work with up to three phases. It has cts that wrap round wire andmeasure the current that's moving through them. Has a contact or controlso it can control the circuit turn it off or on, and so, even though ourproducts are designed in Europe, where you have single phase wiring. That'stwo forty votes here in the US. We have two pase wiring to get higher voltages,so it's nice to have the ability to measure and control that with you knowthat works in both continents. But what really makes this device special isthat it can save your energy monitoring data locally for a year. We also have afree cloud service where you can store it, but it can transmit this datathrough Mt t through rest, Co. AP You've got the ability to use it withvirtually any skate or IOT platform building management software, but youcan also use it at home. You can use it with say, for example, your solarinstallation to make sure that, when you're dumping power back into the grid,you get appropriate credits. It's going to it's going to get a lot of attention.It actually just won the it's a category winner for electricalconstruction and maintenance product of the year for monitoring in control. Ijust got the the first advanced copies of the special issue O, so I'm reallyexcited that that's going to be coming...

...out soon. Now you also asked aboutanother product that people might know about. That's not made by my company.I'd have to say that's home assistant blue, because now you've got theability for an integrator professional electronics installer to Tuck one ofthese small hubs under his arm and walk into someone's home and virtuallyguaranteed to have the ability to automate ninety ninety five percent ofthe products that they've bought it best by at Amazon Walmart wherever, ifit's a connected product, someone somewhere has made an integration forhome assistant for it and with a little work you can, you can give thisautomation system the same sort of look and feel that you get from premiumcontrol systems. I think that it's going to be a game changer for thesmall, independent home, electronics, professional awesome way to go blue dug were were basicallyout of time. Today I feel like I could ask you questions. You know for a lot longer. I do want to ask you know one lastquestion: You know you when I've mentioned to you that the kind offamous phrase hardware is hard, dugs philosophy was hard, ware can be hard,we've got an audience of business leaders and and technical leaders outthere that are thinking about connected devices. Maybe they've been tasked withexecuting on something. What do you think if you were talking directly tothem? You know what should they be thinking about with regards tobeginning to execute against a connected device strategy? Well,experience tells so you've got to have the right team to put together hardware.You know, yes, hardware is hard if you're inexperienced. I come frompersonal experience where I can say it is very difficult to develop a hardwareproduct from the ground up, but if you've got experience with P C designwith writing firm, where, with your basic electronics, your if you've gotabilities on your team, you can do it. So the lesson is build the right team.Before you build the product, the team is everything yeah. I think the theother couple things that jump out of me about that or one I've worked with atand with a fair number of software. Central companies that wanted to get tohardware- and my first question is always are you sure you want to getinto hardware- is hard ware is like real stuff and it's expensive, and ifyou have to fix it, it's like you have to like bring things back and put newthings out there. You can't just flash an update a lot of the times, and soit's a real investment, and the second thing is making sure that you do areally good job of a comprehensive risk assessment like really identify thehigh risk things, things that have to be invented or really hard last time orhave never been done. This way and burn os wrist down as quickly as possible,because otherwise you can spend a lot of money, developing hardware productsand never you know, and have this big risk out there, that you're justpushing down later and later in your developing path, making it more moreexpensive exactly dug. Last last last question your friend of the show wewant to make sure that we give you a...

...plug. I know you've got a podcast ofyour own. What a what a folks out there need to know and who's the rightaudience who out there would, you know, be really into what you've got going on.So I just started the make IOT simple podcast. As a matter of fact, if you goto your Amazon, Echo and say Alex a play, the make it simple, podcastyou'll get the first episode the target audience. Is Your your be tobe professional, whether that's an engineering firm or it's? You know ahome, electronics installer, just if you're looking for a way to use IOTproducts to solve a problem for your customer, I'm going to teach you aboutour products all right. Ladies and gentlemen, you heard it here. FirstMake Iot simple, podcast host and C to Valter Doug Roberson, dug thanks forbeing on the show. Today, thanks for having my guys, you shouldn't have to worry about IOTprojects dragging on or unreliable vendors. You've got enough on yourplate. The right team of Engineers and project managers can change a pivotalmoment for your business into your competitive edge. Various close knitcrew of ambitious problem, solvers, continuous improvers and curiousbuilders know how to turn your ideas into a reality on time and up to yourstandards, with a focus on mitigating risk and maximizing opportunity willhelp you build an io t solution that you can hang your hat on. Let's bringyour Iot idea to life, learn more at very possible com. You've beenlistening to over the Air Iot connected devices and the journey, if you enjoyto day's episode, make sure to hit subscribe in your favorite podcastplayer and give us a rating. Have a question or an idea for a futureepisode. Send it to podcast at very possible com. See you next time. I.

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