Designing IoT Solutions for Hard-to-Connect Places

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

IoT is transforming the way we approach intractable problems like poverty, sustainability, and climate change, especially in remote regions like Africa. But there are many challenges inherent in bringing connected devices to these isolated places.


Jit Bhattacharya, Principal at Factor(e) Ventures, joins the podcast to talk about engineering IoT solutions for areas with unreliable connectivity.


Topics we covered:

- 3 challenges of developing an IoT solution for remote areas

- How lithium-ion batteries are changing the landscape

- The importance of data in developing products and gaining industry buy-in

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While we dream of this extraordinaryfuture, the reality is that this technological revolution seemsincapable of solving some of these really intractable problems that wehave here on earth. You are listening to over the Air Iot connected devicesand the journey brought to you by vary in each episode. We have sharpunfiltered conversations with executives about their IOT journeys,the mistakes they made the lessons they learned and what they wish they'd knownwhen they started all right. Welcome back to over the AirIOT connected devices in the journey. My name is Ryan Prosser, CEO, very myname is luke well known chief product off surer and were joined today by Gitby achaia principal, at factor e ventures to discuss the process ofconnecting devices in hard to connect places. GIT welcome to the show, thanksfor having me run so get set the scene for us a little bit. What was theyou're in Nairobi? This is now our second guest from the Silicon Savannahtalk about like the decision that you made to relocate from California toNairobi and like just a little bit about you, your background leading upto today. Yeah, well, it's really exciting to hear that I am not thefirst guest from East Africa that you got that you've had on this podcast. Ithink it speaks to to the exciting things that are happening in thatmarket right now, so I started my career in Silicon Valley. Over a decadeago, I was actually the CO of an electric vehicle technology company. Itwas called mission motors. We were a fantastic company, developing thehighest performing electric motorcycle in the world, and that's really where Igot my feet: Wet and and learned everything I need to know about how todevelop products, how to develop high tech products was in that SiliconValley atmosphere and the great thing about the Silicon Valley Environment isthat we get to marvel every day of what technology can accomplish. We can dreamof driver less cars going to going to Mars flying taxis all of these thingsevery single day, but while we dream of this extraordinary future, the realityis that this technological revolution seems incapable of solving some ofthese really intractable problems that we have here on earth. You know, forexample, we are talking about going to Mars in the next decade and yet inSubsee, in a place like upstaer in Africa, not just Africa, India, SouthEast Asia, there's over six hundred million people who still don't haveelectricity in their home. So that means they have to go home and light acharoses lamp technology from the eighteen hundreds just in order to beable to wipe their home study with their kids and that's an every day kindof problem. So I was motivated to go back and take everything I learnedabout technology and start to work on these problems, and what I found isthat, while technology hasn't solved...

...these problems, it is alreadytransforming the landscape where we can begin and cellular and io t is at thecore of that Africa, as an example, has leap, fraud, land line phones and it'sgone straight to cellular and a place like African. Now, almost every one,rich or poor has a mobile phone and that phone, even if it isn't a smartphone, it's way more than a device for making calls it's their bank, it'stheir credit card. It's their ID it's their connection to the world and thattransformation of cellular coming into a low income market, a merging marketlike Africa. It has transformed its creator a whole new world for how weconstruct to address problems like poverty like sustainable developmentlike climate adaptation, because climate changes affecting theseequatorial countries more than any other place on earth, and for me inparticular, I became fascinated with this transformation and how I couldbegin to apply my experience to solve this problem, especially of energypoverty. So that's what motivated me to get to Africa out of Silken Valley, soone of the questions I had it in, especially in going through things withyour Prareie. It really struck me that a lot of the technical challenges thatyou're focused on and that you're solving for are ee very like theirthings that were also seeing at Barry in like Agta, for example. So, like oneof them that comes to mind, is engineering at Iot solution in an areawhere conection is intermittent. You know we see that a lot in a TEC space.Can you talk about the journey? Some of the challenges that you faced and hadto overcome to be able to solve for that in Africa and like the connectivetissue that would tie that back to rolling out like either industrialsolutions or a text solutions in a developed market like the United States,but that might see similar issues to what you've had to face. My current role is: I'm I'm atechnology, venture capitalism, a principal with factory ventures, and weare a technology vs, investing instartup company start technologycompanies working in this space around agriculture round energy, aroundmobility. However, before joining this fund, I was actually the chieftechnology officeer, a company called Phoenix and what we were doing. APhoenix were one of many companies. Now working on the African continent andsimilar to companies working in India. We were selling fully off grid powersystems to those that six hundred million homes. I mentioned six hundredmillion people I mentioned- who don't have access to the grid. We wereselling fully off grade power system, so seller panel, with the amion batterythe appliances that connected to it to low income homes in very hardly hard toreach places in rural Africa. Now solar panels. With you mind batteries. Theseare expensive technologies and the way that we made them a fordable was byfinancing the sale and that financing was made possible through cellulartechnology. So just imagine for a second men and women who own a one acrefarm. So these are low income, individuals, low income, households,they live over an hour away from their...

...nearest town and they don't have carsso they're waiting for a bus or a motorcycle to come pick them up. Takethem to that town. This is a really hard to reach place and what ourtechnology, combined with cellular enabled was. It allowed us to sell themthis solar panel and battery system over time. The customer would make apayment from their home using their mobile phone using something calledmobile money, and then the offered energy system that we developed wascellar connected. So once they made a payment, we were able to apply thatcredit to their system over the air and if they ever ran out of credit, thesystem would automatically lack at walk out. So we could create an incentivefor payment in that way, and in this manner we were actually able to createan effective financing scheme with manageable risk, and then the best partis that, with each payment that these homes made, they were actually buildingequity in the system. So after one or two years they owned their own sourceof energy, and this was a home that, up until they owned this energy system,they were using cerese. Now Cellular was key to all of this. Through the ITconnection, we were able to monitor the performance of this system because, ifit ever broke, it was very difficult for us to get to this home and be ableto repair it or replace it. We were able to monitor how customers wereusing it through the IOT connection. We were controlling access to this deviceand we soul actually even managed. We developed the technology to manageother devices through that IOT connection and then through a local urfnetwork, so we were actually in the process of managing multiple devices,financing multiple devices. Now the challenge we faced is in developing anIT product, an effective iot product for this market. We had to deal withthree enormous challenges, and I think these challenges are very similar towhat you will see in the Ateca in a place like the US so number one. We hadto assume unreliable, conductivity and coverage when you're working in ruralareas, even with the massive amounts of money that are going into cellularnetworks across the world and especially in emerging markets. Youstill cannot count on coverage in all of these places is are very difficult,very remote, and even when there is coverage, the coverage is going to beunreliable, so it will be intermittent. You cannot count on a persistentconnection. Will Give you an example when here we're developing a devicewhere a customer makes a payment and they are counting on that device to beunlocked so that they can turn on the lights in their home. But what happensif they don't have a cell connection? All of a sudden, we can't send thesignal to unlock that device, so we had customers picking up their device, someof our prototypes. When we were testing this out, they were walking aroundrural Africa with a battery in their hand, trying to find a cell signal.That is not something we first predicted and really taught us. Okay,we are going to need to build in a back up here. We need to think about ouruser in a face. We need to even think about our business model so that when acustomer makes a payment they're able to get power because that's thefundamental service were providing, so that was one huge, huge area that wehad to deal with them. This also created gaps in the data that we werecollecting on how the device was performing. So, as we were trying tobuild this map in this picture of how...

...the batteries especially were degrading,we had to deal with the fact that okay, the self connection for some of ourhomes might be out more hours of the day than it was on, and so how are wegoing to go through and build in data buffers package data and in aneffective way, so we can still build a complete picture despite the fact thatcount activity is going in and out so so that unreliable can activity isprobably the biggest issue that we face and has to come into the product designwhen we're designing Iot for these markets. Second, is we are dealing withconnections that are low band with and not just loban with, but also expensiveband with. So when we were connected and collecting data from the system ortransmitting data to the system, we had to think very carefully about everybite of data that we were transmitting. It all had to be intentional and weeven had to think about how we were packaging that data. So we werethinking looking a very simple compression algorithms compressionschemes that we could implement on thirty two bit micro controllerse, notsomething that we predicted when we first started this project, but theonly way in which we could get this system to ultimately work and function.The way that we promise the customers and then last and just as important insomething that I know that the ad tech space faces quite frequently is limitedpower availability. So remember what we were selling was an off grade powersystems. That means every ounce of battery capacity inside that device wasideally going to be put towards lighting the customers home charging,their phones running their television or some other appliances. Every ounceof power that we used for the IOT connection was power that was not goingto the customer in this off grid device so and the GS modems that we were usingwere power hungry. So one of the other issues, even though wehad unreliable connections. The other reason we couldn't rely on a persistingconnection is we could not keep the jes on radio on the entire time. So how doyou design these solutions to be incredibly power efficient, so you'remaximizing your battery capacity in your battery life, even if you're notselling the energy from the battery to a customer if you're using a battery ina device that needs to last days before it can be recharged that has to becomepart of the design specification now an important part of how you'reconfiguring the technology so those three key issues you know working inthese in this context: unreliable, conductivity, low band with anexpensive band with and then limited power available for your ity connection.These are key to making a an iota solution work within this context. Soget you have answered questions one through seven, so I think luke and I each had one curveball to keep your end. OTOES look go ahead. What was yours, I guess I wasthinking without obviously going in anything proprietary, but for cent twoof your product other than probably backback straps. They co walk aroundwith their fall unit on their back. What other product evolution, featuresor technologies? Did you kind of push into that next generation to help solvesome of these kind of activity or power...

...efficiency problems yeah so on theconductivity fund? The only solution that we could really, especially whenyou have something that needs to be immediate right. So when a customermakes a payment, you want to make sure that they can use the energy or use thedevice right like we were selling a power system. But this applies for anydevice where customer makes a payment you're relying on an IOT connection forthem to be able to get access to that device. What we found is that, whenyou're in a low low con activity environment you have to have a backup,you have to have an alternative. Otherwise your customer experience isjust going to degrade. So in parallel to the IOT solution, which the Iot lockand unlock was by far and away the most effective solution for us. Indeveloping this product. We also developed a more manual scheme wherethey could enter a code. We could send them a code to their phone and theycould use a code to be able to lock and unlock their device. Newer solutionsthat I know a number of companies working in these environments. You'relooking at is now you're, starting to see an uptick in the number of smartphones that are available in these markets. So most of our customers werestill not using smart phones, they're just using regular old mobile thunes,but with smart phones that you now have, as you have the opportunity to leveragethe blue tooth from the smart phone. And so can you actually create aconnection to the user's phone and then use that as an alternative means oftransferring data when the devices it connection is not available in everysingle product development that I have been part of, or now that I'minteracting with as an investor, we are finding that the teams are having toContinu consider these alternatives in order to get over the the lack ofreliability in the connection makes a ton of sense. I had a question related to. I guesswhat what I would characterize is silver lining. So you're in a adevelopment environment, that's got a lot of unique environmental challenges.The ones that aren't unique are definitely there's some difficultchallenges. What silver linings have you uncovered in terms of like rollingout devices in Africa? There are there things hroar like wow. This is a youknow. For example, I know you've mentioned like the lack of land linetechnology. Nobody cares in the two hands, you know because they jumpedright to mobile. So you know, were you guys able to land on anycharacteristics of the environment there that led to faster development,better solution? Something like that? I think the silver linings are there. Iwould say broad and macro number. One is the amount of investment going intothe overall cellular landscape right now in in emerging markets, because theentire economy is now being built on the backbone of cellar. What you'reseeing is very rapid expansion of coverage you're, seeing, I guess, amuch faster expansion of say three g availability, yeah, we're still inreally a tug. The G world, for the most part we're starting to see some forgeand in cities, but it's mainly to g and three G and in rural areas. What you're,starting to see as tregony more available much faster than we wouldhave expected, especially in these rural areas, and so we're able to nowstart to leverage that D as we design...

...products and solutions. So that's onesilver lining here is the amount of investment that's going in, because theentire economy is now being built on the cellular backbone, especiallybecause cellular is being used through this thing called mobile money mobilemoney. There are more mobile money accounts in it's up to here in Africa.Right now, then there are traditional bank accounts by almost an order ofmagnitude, and so, when you have this dependence on Selu, it means that thenetwork is going to be getting better very very quickly. So that's one silverlining. The other silver lining. I think working in a merging markets isthat you find customers are incredibly adaptable, so they're still customers.You need to really put them first and think about exactly what their needsare. Make life is convenient for them as possible, but one of the things thatyou find is- and we found this with those customers who were taking ourprototypes and walking around trying to find a cellular connection for many ofthem. They were, they were okay doing that they were like yeah well, this isjust what it's like to live in a rural area and live in and try to get thebenefits of these connected technologies, while knowing that we'renot always going to have an activity say what you find is actually thecustomers are quite adaptable as well and and help you solve some of theseproblems alongside so I would say those are the two silver linings and wereally learn from our experience, shifting gears a little bit and andlike talking about this idea of servicing or, let's say deployingassets in hard to reach areas in remote areas. Here in the United States, theforest service is like sort of t e, the ogs of deploying like assets in theseimpossible to reach. You know so. I've come in to you live today from BosmanMontana. These four service lookouts, you know these cabins built on thesetall peaks in really remote areas, I'm always struck. When I, when we hike upthere, you know we barely make it health and puffing whatever and youcome to and then there's a cab in there. You know, and somebody has shlipped upall of the material it really drives on the point that, like servicing thingsin hard to reach areas, is a really difficult problem. How like can youtalk about that, particularly through the Lens of battery powered devices?You know, how are you guys thinking about that? What are some you know forfolks out there listening today that are saying, Hey, look! We're like thissounds like my problem. I've got a a battery powered device. It's going tobe primarily deployed in you know difficult to access areas. What aresome things that that they should be thinking about or like problems thatyou guys have had to solve for along the way, yeah. Well, right actuallyI'll give you an example: first, not one that I have directly had to solvefor, but I think it's just it's relevant to what you were justdescribing about Bosman Montana and these lookouts. So one of thechallenges that we have here, we talked about connectivity and lack o conactivity, as these telecom are expanding coverage, oftentimes theirexpanding coverage using off grid telecom towers, so Imagine Cell Towersthat are not no longer briador d. They...

...have their own solar away, they've gottheir own battery and these are really important assets. Everybody is relyingon those assets to be available in up and the power system that is poweringthose telecom towers. It's now one of the largest markets that you see herein emerging marketer for off Grate Energy Systems is actually poweringthese telecom towers. There's a big shift happening over to lithium. My onbatteries. Now lithen batteries or incredible technology. They are lowerlifetime cost overall, the biggest thing they do for these offered telecomtowers and remote areas is they reduce how frequently the towler operatorsneed to go and and service the batteries when they were dealing withLata batteries, they were having to go all the time to service these batteries.They were dying after a few years with the mind batteries last a long time butlithe in batteries, as we know, they're still somewhat of a fragile technology.The fact that now were able to remotely monitor control even optimize how thosebatteries are being used. So every single day of use is building anotherdata point in how that battery is performing to giving us a little bitmore insight into how we should be managing that system. Some of thechoices that should be made either at the design side or in terms ofoperations, remote monitoring and control, is completely changing thatlandscape, and we saw this on a much more microscans with what we were doingso one of the one of the great things with remote monitoring and control iswe're now able to take alithea Mi on battery system and sell hundreds ofthousands of these into really difficult to reach places. Normally,that would seem incredibly risky what happens when these start to fail leftand right? How do you tell if something is breaking? How do you tell ifactually, somebody is actually just trying to break into the box to be ableto avoid the payment mechanism, and so that way, basically temper with thesystem get free access to the energy? These were things where, if we were notable to remote, get data remotely monitor these systems and really builda picture of what's happening on a system by system basis and then for theentire population. A this would be way too risky a proposition for us to beselling these types of within battery systems. On a one to two year, loaninto these homes, so the whole business would not exist without remotemonitoring and control. So I think it's really interesting how in one hand whatyou're describing we have to solve it for the whole for the connectivitypiece itself by powering these telecom towers and yet then the conductivity isalso helping enable us do this, deploy these more fragile technologies, I'mbringing up with you my and batteries, but you can make a similar argument forsome of these remote sensing technologies that are now enabling atech or health tech. You know health systems and health centers in reallyremote areas. All of these Fadil Technologies as a result of being ableto monitor control them remotely. We are able to deploy them with manageablerisk, whereas before we were not curious in the yeah, I spent a lot ofmy life in battery systems, as you well know, but I'm curious in the UnitedStates Cell Towers are typically frequently now backed up with batterysystems as well, for the exact same...

...reason that you're outlining these areconnected to the grid. But the brig goes down because so many people haveditched their pot plan. They tell the services and in of just having aconnected, sell device, that's now critical infrastructure, and so most ofthose are on battery back up and I'm curious if there are cut lessons,aren't going back and forth at lessons, learn from kind of things you've donein Africa and these rural areas that are in emerging markets versus therural areas in the US versus, like frankly on cell phone towers, are notjust in rural areas and they're, still a TIRI backup if there's like kind ofan ecosystem where all those lessons are being weared and fed back and forth,and in each way- and I think that applies probably some of the othertechnologies that you're describing as well. I would say that the biggestlesson learned right now is the importance of data as we're starting tomake this these decisions and this transition. So the traditional, forexample, these offred energy systems powering telecom towers, or sometimeseven other, you know other applications. It's just the TECON cowers happens tobe one of the most prevalent. One of the things that's happening is thetraditional system used, like I said, with lad acid batteries, especially ifit was off grade use, wet acid batteries, even if it was back up in amarket like the US, it was using typically lead acid batteries and theoff grade context. It was using a diesel generator and honestly, a lot ofthe power was mostly coming from the generator now we're starting to seethat shift over to solar now we're starting to see the shift from LetaahWithein, and yet a lot of the industry, as you know, has been very hesitant tomake that shift. Wet Acid is a well known technology. It's really low upfront capital cost here, you're coming in and saying: Well Trust US technology.This technology is going to last. It's going to save you money in the longterm, but it's more expensive up front the more data that we have to show. Yes,let's show you how this is performing. Let's show you how it's reducing yourdiesel consumption. Let's show you how it's easily going to last the lifetimepus collecting that data is making the business case, because otherwise thebusiness case was purely specular. So I think that that was the biggest lessonlearned. Is You have to have the data in order to get the by an from theindustry now that the make items that's excellent, yeah, so git transitioningto you know what I would call like connective tissues, so you're, makingthese venture investments. You had a you know pretty amazing career in tech.Up to this point, one of the things that I was sort of interested to hearyou expand on a little bit. Is this idea of data use? I know that when youguys during your time at mission motors that was like I mean your it's an evconnected, it's an electric motorcycle, but I think at one time had like a landspeed record on a fairly prominent test track like a hundred and fifty threemiles an hour if I'm staken hundred and sixty two hundred and sixty two yeahall right so and what's nine miles per hour between friends, we can you talk alittle bit about some of the lessons learned from then to now that you knowhave been disproportionately relevant, maybe in surprising ways I was thinkingabout it, even as as Luke as that, previous question and and going backand thinking about Mission Motors Mission Motors was my first experiencewith a true io t device. We, we weren't...

...necessarily calling it that at thattime, because this was back in two thousand nine, two thousand and ten,but the motorcycle that we built as a platform for developing or electricvehicle power train technology as a platform for demonstrating what it isthat we could do. One of the things that we did very early on was we madesure that that vehicle was going to be fully connected and we could monitoreverything that was happening and fairly high resolution whenever ourportice motorcycles were were taken out for a drive and whether that wasdriving on the track or whether that was just going for a ride around town to test a newalgorithm or something like that, and we built an entire data platform in thebackground. So we were streaming that date alive every time that motorcycleturned on, we were streaming that date alive. It was going into a web portalthat we developed internally and at the time, what I didn't realize is yeah.That was my first experience with with building an Iot device and the power. Ithink for me that fundamentally changed everything in my approach even toproduct development, seeing what we were able to learn and understand fromthat data pipeline coming from that vehicle being able to monitor at bothin real time and then be able to analyze the data off line after thefact it gave us so much insight into improving our power train technology,improving our batteries or power, electronics or motors. I cannot imaginedeveloping a product without that type of data, any more and so for me, thebiggest lesson learned here is just it feels to me like for any consumerelectronics product for any electronic prode Betboron. Some aspect of thatdata connection that data pipe line has to be part of the product concept fromthe very beginning and is specially important at the prototype stages,where you're really trying to learn and and so ever since, developing that datain her face it is now a part of every single project I work on is: howquickly can we go to get a data pipe lane, together from whatever productwe're making up into the cloud where we can now start to to analyze in the CESSyeah? I think it's a it's like with most complex features the earlier youthink about it in the design requirements proticipate the better.You can integrate that solution, and I think that that's a very valuable andit's also not an easy thing to like patch in later. If you didn't thinkabout it early on, so I think it does drive that need to be thinking aboutthat very early in the design process. Yeah get. I know you know when I wasasking you in the pre interview. What are some of these, like you know, inyour opinion, connective tissue type moments where you're like to solveproblems here and now, I'm pulling back from. You know this previous time in mycareer. One thing you mentioned that I strongly subscribe to and I think it'slike one of the great underrated elements of a successful company orproject technology is just getting the or design right like the TechnicalOrganization expand on that and what you've seen you know the good, the bad,the ugly...

...yeah. I think one of the things that Ihave seen now and that I feel like I've learned from from experience and fromgetting it wrong previously, is the importance of product thinking andproduct management very early in a product development process, andspecifically, I think this relates more to start ups. So it start up a lot oftimes. Entrepreneurs are when we're founding a company. We are the initialproduct manager. We have an idea for a product or a technology and how wethink it can change the world or transform a market, and so we arebasically getting started as product managers just trying to get thatinitial idea a little bit of oxygen in order to see if it can work and thekind of impact it can have. But then the moment that that product starts tomove forward starts to gain a little bit of traction, and especially asentrepreneurs and executives, we need to move to broader priorities sobuilding an organization I'm raising money, especially, I think it's reallyimportant that we recognize. We need that product function in order for theoverall product Development Organization to thrive. I think toooften there's a focus explicitly on engineering and just getting in reallytalented engineers, but somebody needs to be thinking about. Okay. How is thisactually relating to the customer? How are we making decisions about thisproduct that really are ultimately going to affect the customer, and soone of the things for companies in our portfolio, companies that I work withand advise? I encourage them to pull in the product management function intotheir price development teams earlier and when they do that, I have found ingeneral that those PRAC development teams are much more successful in thefirst iteration of their product being much closer to what is going to reallystart to scale in the market rather than requiring two to three iterationsbefore they're able to get there. So I think, in terms of that organizationaldesign, I think it's that product management piece that's quite oftenmissing and that I always encourage people to prioritize a lot a lotearlier beyond just really talented engineers, which of course, you alsoneed M, totally agree all right. Well, so we're we're moving to to close acouple of quick questions for you. You know you've seen a lot in your careerbatteries to band with cell service solar as you look at the landscape right now.What thing or company do you think is supercool, but that nobody's talking about yet, Oh what thing or company is super coolthat people aren't talking about yet well, I'm going to have to put this in. You know in the context of the marketin which I work, unfortunately so living in East Africa. I thinksometimes we're not as well versed. I am not as well versed in what'shappening in in Silicon Valley, I'm sure there's incredibly cool thingshappening in Silicon Valley. Right now, I will say that the thing that's veryreally cool happening within an emerging markets. Right now is t. overthe last decade, we've seen a really...

...big transition to distributed energysystems and new ways of bringing the making those available, inclusive andaccessible. The next big shift that's happening now is in electric mobilityin places like Africa and place like India, especially electric mobility isalready taken off, and what you're seeing now is electric mobility andplaces like Africa and the really cool thing. The reason that I think it'sparticularly cool is we are seeing business models that were tried in theUS and didn't quite work, so in particular I'll just give you anexample of one story back in the US in you know some time in that I want tosay two thousand and eight to two thousand and twelve period. There was acompany called project better place that was trying to do battery swappingfor electric cars actually raised. I think the company raised almost abillion dollars and had a really big project working in Israel, butultimately it didn't fly or for any number of reasons it didn't fly and andin general I think, we've seen most companies in the electric car space inthe US move away from battery swapping and yet battery swapping is now seeinga resurgence in a place like East Africa, but not for cars actually formotorcycles in east Africa. One of the most common modes of transportation isactually motorcycle taxis. So after buses, motorcycle taxis are reallycommon way for people to get around, sometimes with as many as three to fivepeople. On the back of the motorcycle behind the behind the driver carryingall their groceries and everything else, it's pretty it's a pretty remarkablesight to see something you've, probably seen from photos of Vietnam andSoutheast Asia as well. The cool thing is, there are now a number of companiesworking in east Africa, including one of our companies ampersand in Rowana,that what they're doing is they're taking an electric motorcycle with aswape battery they're selling, the motorcycle without the battery tomotorcycle taxi driver, and then these taxi drivers pull in to a swap stationand in sixty seconds they swap out the battery pay a small fee and then go ontheir way and in the process. Basically, what you have now is an electricmobility company that basically requires no behavior change on the partof these taxi drivers and could result in the complete transformation of themotorcycle taxi industry in a market like East Africa. So I the reason I bring this up is, I don'tthink a business like this is being talked about in the US, and yet it isincredibly cool. It's taking a concept that was first originated over a decadeago in the US, and it's going to have transformative impact in in emergingmarkets. So that's the one that I would bring up and say I'm most excited about, so for for a long time, ev enthusiasts,like me, they've, been watching the space I want to say: Project BetterPlace. Is that the name of the the Israeli start up that went really heavyon Yeh swap for the the the car space totally shaake and then Luke. You had afollow up comment. I think no. I was...

...just going to say the market, the ideathat you're outlining now so I was at humor before I joined Mary and as partof the junk program there, which ultimately got sold up there are- and Iknow, Panico we're GOIN T is with people in Taiwan, but they're doing alot of that for scooters and for the any pikes and things like that, wherethey're liking to set up kiosks and that sort of thing we can go and swapit out and get credit actually for bringing it if it's low to get andcharged up the Kyas, because that's a that is a thing that starting to makemake its way through, certainly in Taiwan, and also a bit in the US aswell. All right get last question: You mighthave missed this, but here in the US Saturday, night late night, televisionviewers retreated to Elon musks debut hosting a Saturday night live it's very in vogue to say that S Nisn't funny any more. I think we're now twenty years in to that being whatpeople say every time other than will parel and Chris Farley. In your opinion,who's the funniest person- that's ever been on Saturday night life, Oh man, funniest person, who's ever been on,and I can't and I can't be- will farrel or Chris Farley. No, I mean it's. This is like I'm saying who's the bestbasketball player, but you can't say Jordan or Le Bron. You know like thoseare the two obvious ones. Will farrel Chris Parley off the table? Funniest S N CAST member of altine.Well I mean I don't know why not. This might be a little provocative and andpolitically incorrect or politically, very correct, but for me over the lastfour years it was definitely Alec Baldwin and I will I will leave it atthat. So as I'll, let you decide if you want to add it that one out? No, I love it will make that's that's agreat one and and bonus points for choosing a host. Not I don't think hewas ever ever cast gestre's a good bar yeah. I think he's hosted more thananyone else H. Okay, jet! Thank you for those that want to keep up with you andyour journey working folks follow along yeah. The best place is to find me onLinkin just look up chip out of Chara. I should be fairly easy to find and andthanks again Ryan for having me cool thanks for being here all right folks,that's it for today, thanks for listening and we'll see you on theInternet, you shouldn't have to worry about IOTprojects dragging on or unreliable vendors. You've got enough on yourplate. The right team of Engineers and project managers can change a pivotalmoment for your business into your competitive edge. Various close knitcrew of ambitious problem, solvers, continuous improvers and curiousbuilders know how to turn your ideas into a reality on time and up to yourstandards, with a focus on mitigating risk and maximizing opportunity willhelp you build an io t solution that you can hang your hat on. Let's bringyour Iot idea to life, learn more it...

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