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IoT Data: Using Smart Tech to Outsmart Analog Competitors

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

IoT data can have a profound impact on the quality of your product. But don’t stop there. It can also potentially improve every single aspect of your business.


In this episode, Sean Grundy, Co-Founder & CEO of Bevi, joins the show to explain how IoT data guides his business and sets the Bevi brand apart from the competition.


We discuss:

- Using IoT data to inform decision making

- Hardware mistakes and lessons learned

- Tips for entering a contract manufacturer relationship

- Thoughts on core competencies and outsourcing

Reach out to Sean on LinkedIn or at sean@bevi.co.

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What's Nice about Iote is that it gives you more information to do whatever you want with, and you might not even know why that information is valuable until after you have it or until a certain moment or certain challenge occurs. You are listening to over the Air Iot connected devices and the journey, brought to you by vary. In each episode we have sharp, unfiltered conversations with executives about their IOT journeys, the mistakes they made, the lessons they learned and what they wish they'd known when they started. Welcome back to over the Air IOT connected devices and the journey. My name is Ryan Process, CEO of very. My name is with well, I'm chief product off Sir very, and today we're joined by Shawn Grundy, cofounder and CEO of Bevy. We're going to be discussing how to use your Iot data in ways your analog competitors can't. Sean, thanks for being on the show. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Sean. Let's say introduce you the audience a little bit. Can you walk us through your journey and how it led to you cofounding bevy? And follow up question, can you give us a little background on how someone goes from being a philosophy major to founding one of the fastest growing beverage companies in the country. Sure, sure, there's actually I think it's a Bruce Lee vote where he says something like I was a philosophy major. So so I think deep thoughts about being unemployed and I do feel like, unless you go to law school or unless you go to Grad School for philosophy, unemployment is maybe the third default option. I actually, after Undergrad, went and worked for an environmental NGO, not do to any particular training, but just because I was very excited about trying to make an environmental impact and while I was at the NGO I got committed to this idea of starting an environmentally focused business. The motive was twofold. Part of it was that I think inherently a business with with environmentalism baked into its business model is likely, over time, to have more impact than an NGO like. The challenge with an NGO is that you always have to raise more money and your fundraising ability is often a lot more based on how much of the budget you spend on marketing versus how much of the budget you spend on actually, like whatever it is you do, whether it's cleaning rivers or saving animals or you know, what have you, whereas in a business, if your business model is designed to have a positive impact as you go along, then as you succeed as a business, like purely by investing in growth, which which you would do anyway, you can make a difference. And the idea of Bevy is really have this positive impact by replacing single use plastic bottles and single use cans with point of use beverages. So, anyway, what what? One reason I got into the idea of environmental business was just impact. The other reason, candidly, was I didn't want to have an Ngeo salary forever, like I wanted at some point have a for profit salary, like I think it was cool. It was cool like living and interesting places and having no money when I was like twenty five, but I didn't want to be doing that at forty five. So I went to business school at Mit with the idea of getting a basic grounding, like a basic business education, as well as, in particular, finding some opportunity to join or start a company that was going to have a positive environmental impact. And I started bevy coming right out of my second year of business school. You talk about the Environmental Impact Angle. Can you you know, for people that maybe aren't making...

...that leap? I know from you know having talked with you previously, beverage manufacturers or beverage companies are, you know, one of the largest contributors to plastic waste, because that's where a lot of consumer plastics are coming from. Can you talk a little bit about that, just some backdrop information about why bevy is invited a mental impact Type Company for folks that didn't make that leap with you just now? Yes, so. So it's true that there have been studies done by by independent organizations to assess the biggest plastic polluters in the world, and the the world's three largest plastic polluters are also the world's three largest beverage companies. So so the industry goes through an astounding amount of single use plastic as well as well as aluminum and fuel used to truck beverages. Like the the beverage industry as a whole waste a lot of natural resources and the concept of Bevy was to create a high quality essentially like a premium beverage brand that was built around a much more sustainable way to deliver beverages. So our product is an internet connected beverage machine that purifies top water and then let's users get get a variety of custom drinks directly from the machine. Those could be plane filtered water, they could be sparkling water, could be flavored or vitamin infused drinks. So so the ideas to provide all these same beverages that people are purchasing in single use, disposable bottles, but making them available directly from the tap via just a good filtration system and and good hardware that that mixes drinks in a high quality and repeatable way. So essentially we cut out all of the packaging as well as an enormous amount of the fuel that goes into transporting beverages. Key, talk about some of the processes you guys use to inform decisions you make about like product customer satisfaction, product evolution, like how are you guys using data or accessing it to kind of inform some of those decisions? Sure, so. So for context here, when we first started the business, our whole goal was to make sustainable beverage machines and we were really purely thinking about the hardware. We were thinking like how do we filter water so that it reaches the level of quality that people would expect from from a premium bottled water brand, or how do we carbonate water and retain the Cotwo at a high level, which is actually like surprisingly difficult to do an inline top connected system that's dispensing tens or hundreds of beverages a day. So we were all focused on the hardware side of just like making great drinks. And actually, when we first started the business, my cofounders and I made fun of Iot businesses because at the time, this is back in two thousand and thirteen, a lot of companies were were kind of pursuing iot almost like we felt to be trendy, whether or not there seemed to be a clear reason. But in our case, very quickly, within probably six months of incorporating, we realize that having internet connectivity would be critical to our business model. The initial way that we used an IOT system and and the the reason we initially built it out was simply to know when to replenish machines with different ingredients, because for the beverages that we create there are fruit concentrates for the various flavored waters, there're cotwo and then filters also need to be replaced with some frequency for the flow rate of the machine to stay to stay at a level that that users want. So we either had to set up a route system where every week or every two weeks or every month, we went...

...out and visited a particular machine. And that's actually what the majority of companies in our industry do, where they physically go to a machine, look at what needs to be replaced and then make a second trip to actually deliver what has to be replaced. So that was one option, or what we thought was the much better option was to know that remotely and, you know, to track exactly how much of its useful life does a filter have left? What percent of the initial amount of Cootwo and a COOTWO tank is remaining? When does each flavor either run out or expire? So we initially built out the IOT system just to have that level of insight, which we use to manage field operations, and it was critical for that. But over time we realize that was just scratching the surface. So the mantra now is really use IOT to run the business and that applies to literally every department at Bebby, like. It applies to to our customer service team, where if they get a call from a customer and they can instantly go and check is the machine working properly, let like, they can check that remote as the machine working properly. Does it have all of its flavors in it? It applies to sales because we can actually see, for example, is this customer actively using their machines? is their usage increasing or decreasing? Are they using it enough that maybe they need to buy additional machines? So we can reach out either if usage significantly increases or significantly drops like like, we can reach out for for either reason. And even like quality is another big area where, for example, initially we started developing features to remotely track if there was a problem in the machine, like if some component broke or if the internet kind activity got lost. But but what that's leading to over time is now US developing features to proactively address those problems and and and stop them before they occur, as well as to share quality data back with our with our manufacturing team, so that we can just continually improve the product. So really, like, Iot is now involved in every single element of the business. Yeah, I'd say so. It's interesting parallel. We see a lot of that. That vary as we get involved with kind of industrial iot and putting brains on machines. Kind of what you just described is like a predictive maintenance algorithm and kind of getting in front of maintenance problems that you see a line and making the lines more efficient or uptime and overall lower costs to produce things. So it's definitely exactly set. I don't for all of the Vodka Soda fans out there, you know we're totally dependent on high quality soda with high carbonation rates out of the gun. But it's a very mixed bag and I always assumed this was a pretty straightforward science. I hear you talk about it being surprisingly complicated. I don't want to derail the interview. He gives US thirty seconds on why producing carbonated water out of the Gun, Aka the dispent, the handheld dispensing hose fed apparatus. Why is that more complicated than meets the eye? Couple reasons. One reason is temperature. So the colder the water is, like, the more to proachse zero degrees Celsius, the higher the carbonation level. Colder water retains more cootwo. There's actually a huge amount of research on this going right now related to climate change and C coot being released from from the ocean with climate change. But it's very relevant beverage production as well. So one challenge is keeping the temperature as cold as possible but not letting any of your tubing or pipes forres so you want to kind of just above zero degrees celsia. So that so that's one challenge. Another challenge is absorption time. So actually, like, cootwo typically needs to be exposed to water for a long time, like I'm trying to remember the research I've seen, but...

...typically, like in a production facility, like a bottling plant, it would be exposed for over an hour before it's bottled. But in an inline system where water is running through the machine and being dispensed, you don't have that. You don't have that much time. Like you don't have that much time to get your cotwo into a particular batch of water because the waters always being transported through the system. So that's another challenge. And actually, I said to but a third, a third that I'll just throw out. It turns out a surprising amount of the Cotwo in dispensing systems is actually lost in the final dispensing. Often has the carbonated water pours out of, whether it's a bar gun or the nozzle of a Soda Fountain. Often, like as it's pouring out and hitting the cup, is when the waters most agitated and the Cotwo gas escapes the water. So those are all factors to deal with when trying to produce high quality sparkling water consistently totally derailed. Is Again, but I've always wondered that. Thanks for thanks for humoring me. It's supercasting mechanicalogic. I've spent too much time thinking about it. But, like, we definitely had a mechanical engineers join our team who, before joining, were skeptical, especially if they came from, say, robotics. They were like skeptical the work would be hard enough to be to be very interesting to them, and then we started explaining some of these problems and they were like okay, yeah, like, I see how that would be. I see, I see how this would keep me busy for for at least a couple months. Yeah, it is. It is surprisingly difficult. So okay, on the subject of Emmy's and hardware, you know, having a pretty solid understanding of machine performance is pretty, I think, to put it mildly, important for having a successful connected device, like understanding how it's failing. You know how it's doing, what needs to be replaced, etc. As you look back at you guys as journey, you know, everybody we interview, I mean a hundred percent, one hundred percent of the people we interview have had like big failures. Not One hundred percent is comfortable talking about them on the air, but one hundred percent has had the fit. You know, the failures, lessons learned. What are some things that you guys learned or did wrong along the way that you know have made you stronger or that you you know and or that you wish you would have done differently, looking back in hardware in particular, because you could literally take your pick of like function and I think of you our problems. Yes, yes, hardware, your just your journey as it pertains to hardware of the you know, the connected device. You got it because, yeah, we have no shortage of other other challenges. For hardware in particular, they're a couple issues. One is forecasting cost is always extremely difficult. So I think one lesson learned for me is always are on the side of like if you have a high estimate and low estimate, always expect it to cost closer to the high estimate at least, or to at least plan for that. Another key area, just with with hardware development in general, has is really to like invest as much as possible in quality from day one, and by quality I mean really controlling for breakdowns as well as as well as being thoughtful about what types of breakdowns. If you have limited resources, what types of breakdowns do you want to prioritize avoiding? In the beginning, with us like, well, like when we first launched our product back in two thousand and fifteen, we didn't really think that much about it. Like we try our best to make machines work. Well, if a machine ever broke down, we just tried to have great customer service. So, like we saw primarily to offices. If we had a machine in someone's office and all of a sudden the touchscreen died and nobody could dispense any beverages or the blue like. There used to be this Bluetooth connection between...

...between our touch screen and the machine controls. So, like, if that went out, the touch screen itself worked, but it didn't actually dispense beverages as as people wished. When that kind of issue happened, we would just hustle over so we would. We would get to that office as quickly as possible, almost always same day. We'd sometimes stop and buy cookies on our way to visit the client and literally like use a box of cookies to smooth over the fact that the fact that the customers machine wasn't working and and we'd solve their problem, get the machine up and running and move on. It probably wasn't until two to three years later that we actually started systematically collecting and and collecting and categorizing breakdown data, and that was a big miss. That was a big miss on our part because we had an opportunity early on to to be really rigorous about documenting the failure mode, taking photos, sharing, sharing the the instances, as well as the high level summary of data of what exactly was breaking and why, with our with our contract manufacturer, so that and with our suppliers so that they could so that they could help diagnose the issues and make sure they didn't happen again, as well as honestly to fully understand our unit. Economics, because no matter what you do, some level of breakdowns is going to occur. Like that's that's inevitable. I'd say in our early years we were just so focused on like fix the issue, show great customer service move on, that we miss this opportunity to be more structured around machine quality and we probably could have saved ourselves cost and and just emotional pain over the years had we had we invested in that sooner. Yeah, I think it's like another way of describing that is it's kind of that feedback part with the product development life cycle. Like you covered idea, you build it, you ship it, and if you don't do a good job of connecting the lessons learned from the field back to the product development cycle, your next generation is not going to be as good as it could have been. Using learn all those lessons and keep that that fortuitous cycle going exactly. And ideally it wouldn't just be like for a onetime post mortem. Ideally it's like ongoing, you know, weekly or monthly or quarterly activity where you're constantly reviewing, okay, what are the new issues that are popping up, diagnosing what the root causes, sharing that information back with your contract manufacturers and with your suppliers, finding new suppliers if needed. Let like, I can tell you for sure that if I ever start another hardware company, from the very beginning, even if we only have, whatever the product is, ten or a hundred products in the field, there's going to be something, whether it's just a spreadsheet or a more sophisticated system, there will be somewhere where we're tracking the serial number of the product, the date an error hered the the characteristics of that error and just develop a culture really early of of focusing on that as well. As I think I would, I would try to be more structured early about figuring out, like what your tolerance is for different errors to occur, because that's important as well. Like you could eliminate them completely, possibly with some massive amount of spending, but then your products would be so expensive, knowing whatever by it. So I think it's important to really think through like kind of what's an appropriate frequency of different types of errors occurring. I think what you're basically describing is how IOT is empowering smarter and smarter quality systems really, because, like what you're describing is a quality system that you put into your design and manufacturing and this connectivity to it and thinking about it very early in the proct design cycle really enables that to be a much...

...better than it has been in the analope exactly Seawan. Pushing the topic forward a little bit. So we talked to a lot of companies that are they they're innovators, their innovative. Oftentimes they tried to do a lot themselves, you know, a very one of the things that we say a lot is you can, you can do anything, but you can't do everything. You know. These are the conversations we have of clients a lot. What are some of the things that you think of as core to what bevy does is and needs to be great at? Versus areas where you guys look for partners you know, that would be able to either do it more cheaply or quickly, or they're just not things where you think it's important for you guys to build up that competency? What are the things that you guys want to be great at and do not at all think is important to be great at? Sure. So, so one challenge, candidate, one challenge I have with the core competency model is that I I think sometimes it gets used as an excuse to like it gets used by companies as an excuse to let that like they use it to let themselves off the hook, because us as an excuse to not hire someone great in each area. And my my thought, the way I think about core competencies, is more around like where do we want to invest the highest amounts of budget? And even if there's some area of the business where we're primarily outsourcing and we're only going to invest like one percent of budget there, I want that one person to be like a star, you know, like the one person who's managing the or partnering with with outsource teams should be really good. But for us in the beginning we did nearly everything ourselves, like even for the first handful of machines, we did assembly and House, and then as time went on, as as we had to start allocating budget, it really became clear that we needed to start shedding certain functions and partnering out certain functions. And and that's where I think we had to get serious about core competencies. Like thinking of it, as you know, if we're going to invest like twenty or thirty percent of our company budget in one area, that better be our own core competency. It varies by department, like right now we outsource. We outsource quite a number of things, and the way we think about it, I think, varies by department. From an engineering perspective, we think a lot about how much work is recurring versus one time and how much work is like isolated versus like heavily integrated with with the rest of the products. So an example where we outsourced with some considerable success, it was actually a mix of inhouse and outsource development work, was what was a designing designing a web AP for a touch this dispensing which we had to do in a hurry due to covid and even though there's an area of interface with the machine, a lot of aspects of that don't actually stand independently and don't need to, like that heavily integrated into into what the rest of our team is doing. So I think that's a great candidate for outsourcing. Another area that what Oldsource is product development. That's very like one time, like if there's a big project that we have to do once, like designing the electronics of a system, we can rely on partners to help develop that, whereas if it's something that requres, like tons of ongoing iteration, like like more of our like more of the machine controls that manage dispensing, or like the logistics APP that we in our distributors used to manage machines in the field. There were there were pushing probably monthly updates. So it makes sense for us to own it just because of the frequency of iteration and in the level of interaction with with our other development work. And then, more broadly, we really think about are our core competencies today as product...

...development, like, and I mean that holistically, like engineering and and what what typically gets called design. And then what we're really attempting to do is build a brand around around those products that like like build a brand around the quality of the user experience. So I'd say we view brand as a core competency, but not not in the way most companies would use it, like not in terms of like awesome ads, like we don't really spend any money on adds, more like the quality of the user experience itself. And most other areas are partially outsourced, whether that's manufacturing, whether that's field service, even sales. In some cases we go to market with a number of channel partners who who, in addition to our own team, are actively selling? Would you say that like I think of dyson as a company that feels a little bit like what you just described. I don't know if you would appreciate that comparison, but dyson's brand, I know if I buy a dyson product, forget about advertising, like you said. I know if I buy a dyson product, it's going to be powerful, it's going to age well, it's going to do the job well. Is that like what you're talking about exactly? Shott, you mentioned contract manufacturers out a follow up question for folks out there that are developing a product and either they've had a bad experience or they have never had a product manufactured via contract manufacturer, what are some mistakes you made that you would tell to this person out here? Hey, be aware of this, or here is something that worked well for this. If you have just two or three hot tips, what is what is something that you would tell to someone over a beer that was looking to enter into a contract manufacturer relationship? Sure, absolutely. I think the two biggest tips I have. One is to this sounds probably obvious, but hire someone to lead the manufacturing search for for a contract manufacturing partner that's done it before. And and the second tip is really when evaluating potential partners, try to be a big fish in a small pond versus a small fish in a big pond in terms of someone and these are lengths so so in terms of getting someone to on the process, a search for a contract manufacturer can look very different and I think it's important, especially if you're a startup, to get someone who's found a contract manufacture in a startup context before. And I say that because when, if you work at a large company that is going to spend tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars manufacturing products each year, you'll have contract manufacturers knocking on your door begging for your business and and the process of selection is much more about reviewing their proposals and deciding who's a good fit for you. If you're in a startup trying to find your first contract manufacture, you probably have little to know revenue and you have to realize that any contract manufacture has to take a pretty significant risk in order to be willing to work with you. Like there's real opportunity cost for them in giving up the floor space and the resources to focus on your business. There's even like real time commitment required from them just to put together a thoughtful quote. They really have to understand your product and go through your bill of materials and think through how they source everything. And if you're part of a startup trying to get somebody to to manufacture for you, it's much more of a process of use selling them versus them selling you, like you really have to go out and pitch and kind of hunt the business and convince them why you're going to grow and...

...why you're going to be a valuable investment and that that just might take a different skill set from someone that's only that's only found a contract manufacturer as part of a big company, as being part of like large companies like the apples of the world, and small companies, like many of the startups that've been and I'd completely agree with you, and you have to remember that that cm world is a very cutthroat model. Like their profit margins are not huge and I think one of the startup things that people don't appreciate its how much work it puts on the startup company, Your Company, to actually define your product to a point that anybody can go build it. You take a lot of that for granted and that got gets under underappreciate. Getting be a massive time commitment they didn't think about or hire for absolutely and that's an area to where I feel like it's good to get someone who's led a manufacturing process in a startup context before, in part because they know to look for a contract manufacturer that can function with the startup like like they know to look for a contract manufacturer that is used to dealing with messy documentation or is used to having to help start up source when they don't know how to do it, versus in a larger company. Often, often the company already has a lot of skill sets which, as a startup, you'll be relying on your contract manufacturer for. The other big area about about being a big fish in a small pond. We have worked with a couple contract manufacturers before and especially in our early years, we felt a lot of pressure to partner with a large international contract manufacture and that pressure, honestly, wasn't coming from customers. It wasn't so much about needing to cut costs. It was more like it was more like proof of scalability. Like in the beginning we were really concerned with scalability and I think to facilitate our own fund raises, like to attract venture capital, we thought it was really important to find some large international contract manufacture just to demonstrate that there would be no supply shortage if demand really took off, just to say, like hey, you're investing millions of dollars in us, we're going to spend a lot of that in sales and marketing. Even if demand goes through the roof. We've got this huge international contract manufacture, like there's no way will ever not not be able to produce enough machines, and it was this way of kind of conveying that we were serious. And in retrospect, I think it was a mistake to do that too early. Like, I think I found that there are so many benefits to working with a like a small, often local, contract manufacture in terms of like mind share, you know, like if you're working with a huge contract manufacture and you're a startup and you have a problem and they're also sup boarding apple and apple has a problem, I mean apple is going to get their help, like we're not going to get their help. Versus if it's a small contract manufacturer. Where we make up a significant share of their business, then will be the the client that gets support, whether it's support with quality or support with working with suppliers or whatever issue there maybe. And the other issue here is actually that a lot of people don't think about this, but often, if you're in the hardware business, your contract manufacturer is a bigger creditor than your bank. That's something that I did not fully appreciate, but but often the way it works is your contract manufacturer places purchase orders for all the components that go into your hardware device several months out and they're paying for those in advance of delivery and an advance of assembling machines, and that can add up. In our company and in many other companies, that can add up to millions of dollars of component costs being floated by your contract manufacturer. And you probably, like when selecting the CM, or at least historically, like we when it's selecting our contract manufacturers, didn't always appreciate that, like we didn't always appreciate...

...that this is not just a production partnership. This is a serious financial partnership as well. And the same way that we're very careful about selecting what bank we work with or what investor we work with, essentially realizing that your contract manufacture is investing in you too, and you're more likely to get good investment terms when it's a company that really cares about you, where you're where you're a very important part of their business. That's great, sewan. Follow up question, when you're talking about you know you're just talking about outsourcing and what that looks like as you guys have gone through the product development, would have been some, you know, critically important things that you guys have selected to outsource to a partner, looking for like technical things, not like brand help work, but like in the actual product? What are some times when you said, Hey, for example firmware, you know, we're going to go out and find a partner because this is really important. It's an extremely specialized skill we're can you think of an example of the time where either you did that or you wish you had them that? Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. All our has mentioned, all our manufacturing, like machine manufacturing, as well as all our flavor manufacturing, is is outsourced and done by partners. firmware is an interesting example we have. We have absolutely outsourced, outsourced firmware development before, in part because on on a lot of the electronic components in a machine, they don't need to be iterated on all that much. It's more they have to be done right once and then maybe be modified from time to time, but done, but done right before before your product is ready for manufacturing. So for a lot of that work that doesn't need to be constantly iterated on, we found that it's it can be more efficient to outsource it and and just make sure you're getting the right partner. But like make sure your prioritizing the right partner in terms of work. I wish we had. I wish we had outsourced one area. I go back and forth on it, but but one area, when I think about our early product development, we spent an enormous amount of time on the physical look and feel of the machine. Like we put a lot of effort into the frames of our initial machines and I remember when we were first producing them back in two thousand and fifteen, two thousand and sixteen, like at one point we spent a couple months just trying to get the doors to like fit properly and we realize the doors can actually doors on like a large steel machine can actually be quite difficult to align and they can get bent or messed up in shipping. And we spent a couple months working on that ourselves and didn't really at the time think about the opportunity cost. And this is at a time when we had a smaller team to so the opportunity cost was more serious, and what I realized is like, in retrospect, the opportunity cost was that a lot of actual beverage components which determine the temperature, the carbonation level, the flavor mixing, the the the reliability and consistency of the beverages that people get. A lot of those we were just what. We were just buying off the shelf, just because that was faster and and that's what we had time for, given all the all the effort we're putting into like the physical frame of the machine and like that's an area where, in retrospect, there are a lot of companies out there that are great at making doors, like we could have pretty easily outsturce that and found some company that could make a door that sealed...

...properly, and we should have instead probably focused on the areas where there's real where there's real ip you know, like actual proprietary areas that determine the success of the business, like like the the all the components that mix the beverages themselves and give users the right experience. It's interesting at where. So where we are with very we've kind of built a complete end to end, like from the user or phase, the Uiux, to the Front End, to the cloud back end, to the hardware, to the physical practicigns. Like we can do all these different things and people come to us with a very crazy range of asks and what we try to do is say, look, if you're going to do a thing, if you need to be able to do a thing over and over again for every generation or continuously stay on top of it, that's the thing you really should staff up when we can help you do that. We can help you find the right people to do that, but it's important that you have that capability and where we think we try to step in, just like the door manufactor, and the door example, is a place where we have a great expertise set that can solve a problem that you need to solve once and that you can maximize that value from. But you don't need every single time. I think that's kind of how our business model works and why we think it brings value to companies like yours. Yeah, and I'm sure there's still a lot of repeat business for you guys in that right, if you have like a version too soon enough to come anas a version two point one or version two point two or their new features they want. So it's like they're still still a hundred hundred percent. What winds up happening is a lot of time. Like they have such a great experience as working with sins that they'll in their next generation and they'll have a different onetime thing they need to go do and they know that while they did it different one time thing with this last time, they know we also have the skill set to cover that this one time, and so they they kind of moves around the expertise set depending on where they are in their product list. Like that's interesting. That makes sense, John. Moving towards close now two questions for you. One I don't this is this is definitely solidly the world according to Ryan, but you and I had a you and I and Luke had a really interesting conversation about philosophy in the pre interview and turned out that all of us had recently read Plato's Republic, which, I mean good luck getting three people together that had recently read that, but I was just kind of curious to read it. So and now I don't know why Luke read it, but love. I think of philosophy. You asked me why I was interested in it and I took the weekend to really think about the answer and I think that for me the answer was I really am interested in uncovering fundamental truths, you know, things that are just fundamentally true and I S. I find that often in philosophy. Whether or not you agree with that definition, I'm not going to ask a guy, a Princeton Guy, who studied nothing but philosophy, whether or not I've defined philosophy correctly. Let's move past that. My question is, what's a fundamental truth you've discovered about Iot? I mean, I haven't, I haven't thought about it this way before, but it's funny right, like like if you view philosophy as this like search for search for truth. I mean what's Nice about Iote is that it just gives you more information. It gives you more information to do whatever you want with and you might not even know why that information is valuable until after you have it or until until a certain moment or certain challenge occurs. So that's anyway. That's that's one thing right, that it's just this this source of knowledge about your own product in your own cust stommers. And another. Another really interesting thing I found with Iot, and this is something we haven't taken enough advantage of yet but ideally will over time, is that the more objects you''re connecting, essentially like the more valuable the overall data set of...

...like Iot things becomes. Like there are their pieces of information that might not be particularly useful on their own but might be very useful when coupled with other information. So, like an example of this would be for a bevery bevy user. We don't asside from our touch this dispensing web AC we don't currently have like a user APP where users, say, store their preferences. But part of the reason, part of the reason we haven't developed one yet. Part of it is just bandwidth and priorities, but but it's also because there's not all that much exciting information to track other than like how much water you're drinking, maybe what vitamins you're consuming. Let like some basic info like that, and on its own that's probably not particularly interesting to track, like how many drinks today you're getting. But what I realize is like in tandem with other information, if someone has that information but they also have a fitbit or a whoop and they also know, like how well they slept or how good they feel or, overall, how healthy they are, and all of a sudden you can correlate. You can correlate the information and realize that, like, Oh, when you drink more water or when you drink this amount, this is the right this is the right amount for you for you to like feel good or sleep well or have a great workout. That starts becoming really interesting. So I think like the more the more we can combine data sets, the more valuable at all becomes. So follow up question, Shawn. It's the time of Skynet and the robot, the machine uprising has begun. Bevy's machines are out front in in the assault against the humans. Do you feel incredibly proud that your machines are intelligent enough to be to play a leadership role in the uprising, or are you horrified that you have helped make skynet possible. I'm a I'm a John Conner Fan, so so probably probably more horrified. Yeah, yeah, it's funny. We once we once interviewed we once interviewed this guy and he he was a software engineer and I asked him why he was excited to join bevy and like the answer was typically. Let like a typical answer would be like I'm excited about the environmental impact, or like I love Iot and I think I devices are fun. Like those would be typical answers and his answer was like he's like, if hevy succeeds, you'll eventually control people's water supply because you'll have the device, you'll have the device between the municipal tap that's purifying the water and creating water that people can drink. And he's like, guess pollution increases, this will become more and more valuable and eventually, like the company that controls the world's water supply will have the most power. And I was like, Oh my God, we can sever yeah, return, I know, I know. And he was really he was really excited about that potential power and I was like, I don't think he's a good fit for us. But so we didn't hire him. But but yeah, yeah, it is. It is scary, I guess, when you think of like w yeah, yeah, when you think of all of the data, kind of all of the data available on us, I think in our case it's relatively benign, like like we're not collecting personal info. You know, I think in our case it's all it's all relatively benign. Last question, what's a company in the IOT space that you guys really look up to and admire? You know somebody that Bevy says, Hey, that's we want to be like them when we grow up. The company that that we most emulate, I'd say, is Peloton. Also,...

I mean we also it's hard to be in the hardware business and not think about apple. You know what we also have, for think about think about what we can learn from Apple. But I'd say the company we most emulate is Peloton, just in terms of they they took what was considered a boring product, in their case a stationary bike, in our case a water machine. They completely redesigned it with extreme focus on the user experience, like really trying to get the details right so that people love the product. They created a recurring revenue business model, which we did as well. And and they really have now built a brand around how good their product is, like both the physical product itself as well as the the content that they stream, and that is the same opportunity I see for a bevvy like that. That's essentially what we're trying to do, to really create this product that's best in class, that just relies on excellent engineering and like build a brand around it that that becomes extremely difficult to imitate because, like you can't copy the brand unless you can outdo our years of engineering. We are also huge fans of pelaton telephones, a big client of ours. But so it sounds like the takeaway is there's there's a lot of things that can be maybe copied or fast followed, but, you know, a really well engineered into end product is not one of those things. There's really no shortcut, and that's the piece that you guys are saying. Peloton did that. That's that's the bevy approach, exactly exactly, like, rather than having our brand be based on like awesome TV ads or like a celebrity sponsor or something that, with money, you can kind of quickly copy, like it's really hard if your brand is built around quality, even with a lot of money, it's really hard to to outdo another company on the details of the engineering and the product experience without putting in the work, like without going through the design cycles and seeing yourself what goes wrong and fixing that over time. So so I just feel like, especially if you're a startup where you don't have a lot of money but you do have good people and debt and and dedicated people, it's really an upper and where your first to market, it's really an opportunity to to get a legout. So Sean. For All the philosophers out there listening today, we're as we moved to wrap this episode up. For All the philosophers turned entrepreneurs that want to follow you, where, where can folks find you out on the Internet? I do not really have a social media presence, like, I'm not I'm not really linkedin is honestly, it's pretty lame. But linkedin is like the only social media APP that I use. So so I guess Linkedin. or You could just email me my emails, just my first name, at Bevy dot CEO. So Seawan, seam at BEVYTC. Couldn't afford the m all right, boats that's it. For today. I'm Ryan. This is Luke. Thanks for listening. See you guys on the Internet. Thanks, guys. You shouldn't have to worry about IOT projects dragging on or unreliable vendors. You've got enough on your plate. The right team of Engineers and project managers can change a pivotal moment for your business into your competitive edge. Varies. Close Knit crew of ambitious problem solvers, continuous improvers and curious builders know how to turn your ideas into a reality on time and up to your standards, with a focus on mitigating risk in maximizing opportunity, will help you build an Iot solution that you can hang your hat on. Let's bring your Iot idea to life. Learn more at very possiblecom. You've been listening...

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