IoT Data: Using Smart Tech to Outsmart Analog Competitors

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

IoT data can have a profound impact on the quality of your product. But don’t stop there. It can also potentially improve every single aspect of your business.


In this episode, Sean Grundy, Co-Founder & CEO of Bevi, joins the show to explain how IoT data guides his business and sets the Bevi brand apart from the competition.


We discuss:

- Using IoT data to inform decision making

- Hardware mistakes and lessons learned

- Tips for entering a contract manufacturer relationship

- Thoughts on core competencies and outsourcing

Reach out to Sean on LinkedIn or at sean@bevi.co.

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What's Nice about Iote is that itgives you more information to do whatever you want with, and you might noteven know why that information is valuable until after you have it or until acertain moment or certain challenge occurs. You are listening to over the Air Iotconnected devices and the journey, brought to you by vary. In each episodewe have sharp, unfiltered conversations with executives about their IOT journeys, the mistakesthey made, the lessons they learned and what they wish they'd known when theystarted. Welcome back to over the Air IOT connected devices and the journey.My name is Ryan Process, CEO of very. My name is with well, I'm chief product off Sir very, and today we're joined by Shawn Grundy, cofounder and CEO of Bevy. We're going to be discussing how to useyour Iot data in ways your analog competitors can't. Sean, thanks for beingon the show. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Sean. Let's say introduce you the audience a little bit. Can youwalk us through your journey and how it led to you cofounding bevy? Andfollow up question, can you give us a little background on how someone goesfrom being a philosophy major to founding one of the fastest growing beverage companies inthe country. Sure, sure, there's actually I think it's a Bruce Leevote where he says something like I was a philosophy major. So so Ithink deep thoughts about being unemployed and I do feel like, unless you goto law school or unless you go to Grad School for philosophy, unemployment ismaybe the third default option. I actually, after Undergrad, went and worked foran environmental NGO, not do to any particular training, but just becauseI was very excited about trying to make an environmental impact and while I wasat the NGO I got committed to this idea of starting an environmentally focused business. The motive was twofold. Part of it was that I think inherently abusiness with with environmentalism baked into its business model is likely, over time,to have more impact than an NGO like. The challenge with an NGO is thatyou always have to raise more money and your fundraising ability is often alot more based on how much of the budget you spend on marketing versus howmuch of the budget you spend on actually, like whatever it is you do,whether it's cleaning rivers or saving animals or you know, what have you, whereas in a business, if your business model is designed to have apositive impact as you go along, then as you succeed as a business,like purely by investing in growth, which which you would do anyway, youcan make a difference. And the idea of Bevy is really have this positiveimpact by replacing single use plastic bottles and single use cans with point of usebeverages. So, anyway, what what? One reason I got into the ideaof environmental business was just impact. The other reason, candidly, wasI didn't want to have an Ngeo salary forever, like I wanted at somepoint have a for profit salary, like I think it was cool. Itwas cool like living and interesting places and having no money when I was liketwenty five, but I didn't want to be doing that at forty five.So I went to business school at Mit with the idea of getting a basicgrounding, like a basic business education, as well as, in particular,finding some opportunity to join or start a company that was going to have apositive environmental impact. And I started bevy coming right out of my second yearof business school. You talk about the Environmental Impact Angle. Can you youknow, for people that maybe aren't making...

...that leap? I know from youknow having talked with you previously, beverage manufacturers or beverage companies are, youknow, one of the largest contributors to plastic waste, because that's where alot of consumer plastics are coming from. Can you talk a little bit aboutthat, just some backdrop information about why bevy is invited a mental impact TypeCompany for folks that didn't make that leap with you just now? Yes,so. So it's true that there have been studies done by by independent organizationsto assess the biggest plastic polluters in the world, and the the world's threelargest plastic polluters are also the world's three largest beverage companies. So so theindustry goes through an astounding amount of single use plastic as well as well asaluminum and fuel used to truck beverages. Like the the beverage industry as awhole waste a lot of natural resources and the concept of Bevy was to createa high quality essentially like a premium beverage brand that was built around a muchmore sustainable way to deliver beverages. So our product is an internet connected beveragemachine that purifies top water and then let's users get get a variety of customdrinks directly from the machine. Those could be plane filtered water, they couldbe sparkling water, could be flavored or vitamin infused drinks. So so theideas to provide all these same beverages that people are purchasing in single use,disposable bottles, but making them available directly from the tap via just a goodfiltration system and and good hardware that that mixes drinks in a high quality andrepeatable way. So essentially we cut out all of the packaging as well asan enormous amount of the fuel that goes into transporting beverages. Key, talkabout some of the processes you guys use to inform decisions you make about likeproduct customer satisfaction, product evolution, like how are you guys using data oraccessing it to kind of inform some of those decisions? Sure, so.So for context here, when we first started the business, our whole goalwas to make sustainable beverage machines and we were really purely thinking about the hardware. We were thinking like how do we filter water so that it reaches thelevel of quality that people would expect from from a premium bottled water brand,or how do we carbonate water and retain the Cotwo at a high level,which is actually like surprisingly difficult to do an inline top connected system that's dispensingtens or hundreds of beverages a day. So we were all focused on thehardware side of just like making great drinks. And actually, when we first startedthe business, my cofounders and I made fun of Iot businesses because atthe time, this is back in two thousand and thirteen, a lot ofcompanies were were kind of pursuing iot almost like we felt to be trendy,whether or not there seemed to be a clear reason. But in our case, very quickly, within probably six months of incorporating, we realize that havinginternet connectivity would be critical to our business model. The initial way that weused an IOT system and and the the reason we initially built it out wassimply to know when to replenish machines with different ingredients, because for the beveragesthat we create there are fruit concentrates for the various flavored waters, there're cotwoand then filters also need to be replaced with some frequency for the flow rateof the machine to stay to stay at a level that that users want.So we either had to set up a route system where every week or everytwo weeks or every month, we went...

...out and visited a particular machine.And that's actually what the majority of companies in our industry do, where theyphysically go to a machine, look at what needs to be replaced and thenmake a second trip to actually deliver what has to be replaced. So thatwas one option, or what we thought was the much better option was toknow that remotely and, you know, to track exactly how much of itsuseful life does a filter have left? What percent of the initial amount ofCootwo and a COOTWO tank is remaining? When does each flavor either run outor expire? So we initially built out the IOT system just to have thatlevel of insight, which we use to manage field operations, and it wascritical for that. But over time we realize that was just scratching the surface. So the mantra now is really use IOT to run the business and thatapplies to literally every department at Bebby, like. It applies to to ourcustomer service team, where if they get a call from a customer and theycan instantly go and check is the machine working properly, let like, theycan check that remote as the machine working properly. Does it have all ofits flavors in it? It applies to sales because we can actually see,for example, is this customer actively using their machines? is their usage increasingor decreasing? Are they using it enough that maybe they need to buy additionalmachines? So we can reach out either if usage significantly increases or significantly dropslike like, we can reach out for for either reason. And even likequality is another big area where, for example, initially we started developing featuresto remotely track if there was a problem in the machine, like if somecomponent broke or if the internet kind activity got lost. But but what that'sleading to over time is now US developing features to proactively address those problems andand and stop them before they occur, as well as to share quality databack with our with our manufacturing team, so that we can just continually improvethe product. So really, like, Iot is now involved in every singleelement of the business. Yeah, I'd say so. It's interesting parallel.We see a lot of that. That vary as we get involved with kindof industrial iot and putting brains on machines. Kind of what you just described islike a predictive maintenance algorithm and kind of getting in front of maintenance problemsthat you see a line and making the lines more efficient or uptime and overalllower costs to produce things. So it's definitely exactly set. I don't forall of the Vodka Soda fans out there, you know we're totally dependent on highquality soda with high carbonation rates out of the gun. But it's avery mixed bag and I always assumed this was a pretty straightforward science. Ihear you talk about it being surprisingly complicated. I don't want to derail the interview. He gives US thirty seconds on why producing carbonated water out of theGun, Aka the dispent, the handheld dispensing hose fed apparatus. Why isthat more complicated than meets the eye? Couple reasons. One reason is temperature. So the colder the water is, like, the more to proachse zerodegrees Celsius, the higher the carbonation level. Colder water retains more cootwo. There'sactually a huge amount of research on this going right now related to climatechange and C coot being released from from the ocean with climate change. Butit's very relevant beverage production as well. So one challenge is keeping the temperatureas cold as possible but not letting any of your tubing or pipes forres soyou want to kind of just above zero degrees celsia. So that so that'sone challenge. Another challenge is absorption time. So actually, like, cootwo typicallyneeds to be exposed to water for a long time, like I'm tryingto remember the research I've seen, but...

...typically, like in a production facility, like a bottling plant, it would be exposed for over an hour beforeit's bottled. But in an inline system where water is running through the machineand being dispensed, you don't have that. You don't have that much time.Like you don't have that much time to get your cotwo into a particularbatch of water because the waters always being transported through the system. So that'sanother challenge. And actually, I said to but a third, a thirdthat I'll just throw out. It turns out a surprising amount of the Cotwoin dispensing systems is actually lost in the final dispensing. Often has the carbonatedwater pours out of, whether it's a bar gun or the nozzle of aSoda Fountain. Often, like as it's pouring out and hitting the cup,is when the waters most agitated and the Cotwo gas escapes the water. Sothose are all factors to deal with when trying to produce high quality sparkling waterconsistently totally derailed. Is Again, but I've always wondered that. Thanks forthanks for humoring me. It's supercasting mechanicalogic. I've spent too much time thinking aboutit. But, like, we definitely had a mechanical engineers join ourteam who, before joining, were skeptical, especially if they came from, say, robotics. They were like skeptical the work would be hard enough tobe to be very interesting to them, and then we started explaining some ofthese problems and they were like okay, yeah, like, I see howthat would be. I see, I see how this would keep me busyfor for at least a couple months. Yeah, it is. It issurprisingly difficult. So okay, on the subject of Emmy's and hardware, youknow, having a pretty solid understanding of machine performance is pretty, I think, to put it mildly, important for having a successful connected device, likeunderstanding how it's failing. You know how it's doing, what needs to bereplaced, etc. As you look back at you guys as journey, youknow, everybody we interview, I mean a hundred percent, one hundred percentof the people we interview have had like big failures. Not One hundred percentis comfortable talking about them on the air, but one hundred percent has had thefit. You know, the failures, lessons learned. What are some thingsthat you guys learned or did wrong along the way that you know havemade you stronger or that you you know and or that you wish you wouldhave done differently, looking back in hardware in particular, because you could literallytake your pick of like function and I think of you our problems. Yes, yes, hardware, your just your journey as it pertains to hardware ofthe you know, the connected device. You got it because, yeah,we have no shortage of other other challenges. For hardware in particular, they're acouple issues. One is forecasting cost is always extremely difficult. So Ithink one lesson learned for me is always are on the side of like ifyou have a high estimate and low estimate, always expect it to cost closer tothe high estimate at least, or to at least plan for that.Another key area, just with with hardware development in general, has is reallyto like invest as much as possible in quality from day one, and byquality I mean really controlling for breakdowns as well as as well as being thoughtfulabout what types of breakdowns. If you have limited resources, what types ofbreakdowns do you want to prioritize avoiding? In the beginning, with us like, well, like when we first launched our product back in two thousand andfifteen, we didn't really think that much about it. Like we try ourbest to make machines work. Well, if a machine ever broke down,we just tried to have great customer service. So, like we saw primarily tooffices. If we had a machine in someone's office and all of asudden the touchscreen died and nobody could dispense any beverages or the blue like.There used to be this Bluetooth connection between...

...between our touch screen and the machinecontrols. So, like, if that went out, the touch screen itselfworked, but it didn't actually dispense beverages as as people wished. When thatkind of issue happened, we would just hustle over so we would. Wewould get to that office as quickly as possible, almost always same day.We'd sometimes stop and buy cookies on our way to visit the client and literallylike use a box of cookies to smooth over the fact that the fact thatthe customers machine wasn't working and and we'd solve their problem, get the machineup and running and move on. It probably wasn't until two to three yearslater that we actually started systematically collecting and and collecting and categorizing breakdown data,and that was a big miss. That was a big miss on our partbecause we had an opportunity early on to to be really rigorous about documenting thefailure mode, taking photos, sharing, sharing the the instances, as wellas the high level summary of data of what exactly was breaking and why,with our with our contract manufacturer, so that and with our suppliers so thatthey could so that they could help diagnose the issues and make sure they didn'thappen again, as well as honestly to fully understand our unit. Economics,because no matter what you do, some level of breakdowns is going to occur. Like that's that's inevitable. I'd say in our early years we were justso focused on like fix the issue, show great customer service move on,that we miss this opportunity to be more structured around machine quality and we probablycould have saved ourselves cost and and just emotional pain over the years had wehad we invested in that sooner. Yeah, I think it's like another way ofdescribing that is it's kind of that feedback part with the product development lifecycle. Like you covered idea, you build it, you ship it,and if you don't do a good job of connecting the lessons learned from thefield back to the product development cycle, your next generation is not going tobe as good as it could have been. Using learn all those lessons and keepthat that fortuitous cycle going exactly. And ideally it wouldn't just be likefor a onetime post mortem. Ideally it's like ongoing, you know, weeklyor monthly or quarterly activity where you're constantly reviewing, okay, what are thenew issues that are popping up, diagnosing what the root causes, sharing thatinformation back with your contract manufacturers and with your suppliers, finding new suppliers ifneeded. Let like, I can tell you for sure that if I everstart another hardware company, from the very beginning, even if we only have, whatever the product is, ten or a hundred products in the field,there's going to be something, whether it's just a spreadsheet or a more sophisticatedsystem, there will be somewhere where we're tracking the serial number of the product, the date an error hered the the characteristics of that error and just developa culture really early of of focusing on that as well. As I thinkI would, I would try to be more structured early about figuring out,like what your tolerance is for different errors to occur, because that's important aswell. Like you could eliminate them completely, possibly with some massive amount of spending, but then your products would be so expensive, knowing whatever by it. So I think it's important to really think through like kind of what's anappropriate frequency of different types of errors occurring. I think what you're basically describing ishow IOT is empowering smarter and smarter quality systems really, because, likewhat you're describing is a quality system that you put into your design and manufacturingand this connectivity to it and thinking about it very early in the proct designcycle really enables that to be a much...

...better than it has been in theanalope exactly Seawan. Pushing the topic forward a little bit. So we talkedto a lot of companies that are they they're innovators, their innovative. Oftentimesthey tried to do a lot themselves, you know, a very one ofthe things that we say a lot is you can, you can do anything, but you can't do everything. You know. These are the conversations wehave of clients a lot. What are some of the things that you thinkof as core to what bevy does is and needs to be great at?Versus areas where you guys look for partners you know, that would be ableto either do it more cheaply or quickly, or they're just not things where youthink it's important for you guys to build up that competency? What arethe things that you guys want to be great at and do not at allthink is important to be great at? Sure. So, so one challenge, candidate, one challenge I have with the core competency model is that II think sometimes it gets used as an excuse to like it gets used bycompanies as an excuse to let that like they use it to let themselves offthe hook, because us as an excuse to not hire someone great in eacharea. And my my thought, the way I think about core competencies,is more around like where do we want to invest the highest amounts of budget? And even if there's some area of the business where we're primarily outsourcing andwe're only going to invest like one percent of budget there, I want thatone person to be like a star, you know, like the one personwho's managing the or partnering with with outsource teams should be really good. Butfor us in the beginning we did nearly everything ourselves, like even for thefirst handful of machines, we did assembly and House, and then as timewent on, as as we had to start allocating budget, it really becameclear that we needed to start shedding certain functions and partnering out certain functions.And and that's where I think we had to get serious about core competencies.Like thinking of it, as you know, if we're going to invest like twentyor thirty percent of our company budget in one area, that better beour own core competency. It varies by department, like right now we outsource. We outsource quite a number of things, and the way we think about it, I think, varies by department. From an engineering perspective, we thinka lot about how much work is recurring versus one time and how muchwork is like isolated versus like heavily integrated with with the rest of the products. So an example where we outsourced with some considerable success, it was actuallya mix of inhouse and outsource development work, was what was a designing designing aweb AP for a touch this dispensing which we had to do in ahurry due to covid and even though there's an area of interface with the machine, a lot of aspects of that don't actually stand independently and don't need to, like that heavily integrated into into what the rest of our team is doing. So I think that's a great candidate for outsourcing. Another area that whatOldsource is product development. That's very like one time, like if there's abig project that we have to do once, like designing the electronics of a system, we can rely on partners to help develop that, whereas if it'ssomething that requres, like tons of ongoing iteration, like like more of ourlike more of the machine controls that manage dispensing, or like the logistics APPthat we in our distributors used to manage machines in the field. There werethere were pushing probably monthly updates. So it makes sense for us to ownit just because of the frequency of iteration and in the level of interaction withwith our other development work. And then, more broadly, we really think aboutare our core competencies today as product...

...development, like, and I meanthat holistically, like engineering and and what what typically gets called design. Andthen what we're really attempting to do is build a brand around around those productsthat like like build a brand around the quality of the user experience. SoI'd say we view brand as a core competency, but not not in theway most companies would use it, like not in terms of like awesome ads, like we don't really spend any money on adds, more like the qualityof the user experience itself. And most other areas are partially outsourced, whetherthat's manufacturing, whether that's field service, even sales. In some cases wego to market with a number of channel partners who who, in addition toour own team, are actively selling? Would you say that like I thinkof dyson as a company that feels a little bit like what you just described. I don't know if you would appreciate that comparison, but dyson's brand,I know if I buy a dyson product, forget about advertising, like you said. I know if I buy a dyson product, it's going to bepowerful, it's going to age well, it's going to do the job well. Is that like what you're talking about exactly? Shott, you mentioned contractmanufacturers out a follow up question for folks out there that are developing a productand either they've had a bad experience or they have never had a product manufacturedvia contract manufacturer, what are some mistakes you made that you would tell tothis person out here? Hey, be aware of this, or here issomething that worked well for this. If you have just two or three hottips, what is what is something that you would tell to someone over abeer that was looking to enter into a contract manufacturer relationship? Sure, absolutely. I think the two biggest tips I have. One is to this soundsprobably obvious, but hire someone to lead the manufacturing search for for a contractmanufacturing partner that's done it before. And and the second tip is really whenevaluating potential partners, try to be a big fish in a small pond versusa small fish in a big pond in terms of someone and these are lengthsso so in terms of getting someone to on the process, a search fora contract manufacturer can look very different and I think it's important, especially ifyou're a startup, to get someone who's found a contract manufacture in a startupcontext before. And I say that because when, if you work at alarge company that is going to spend tens of millions or hundreds of millions ofdollars manufacturing products each year, you'll have contract manufacturers knocking on your door beggingfor your business and and the process of selection is much more about reviewing theirproposals and deciding who's a good fit for you. If you're in a startuptrying to find your first contract manufacture, you probably have little to know revenueand you have to realize that any contract manufacture has to take a pretty significantrisk in order to be willing to work with you. Like there's real opportunitycost for them in giving up the floor space and the resources to focus onyour business. There's even like real time commitment required from them just to puttogether a thoughtful quote. They really have to understand your product and go throughyour bill of materials and think through how they source everything. And if you'repart of a startup trying to get somebody to to manufacture for you, it'smuch more of a process of use selling them versus them selling you, likeyou really have to go out and pitch and kind of hunt the business andconvince them why you're going to grow and...

...why you're going to be a valuableinvestment and that that just might take a different skill set from someone that's onlythat's only found a contract manufacturer as part of a big company, as beingpart of like large companies like the apples of the world, and small companies, like many of the startups that've been and I'd completely agree with you,and you have to remember that that cm world is a very cutthroat model.Like their profit margins are not huge and I think one of the startup thingsthat people don't appreciate its how much work it puts on the startup company,Your Company, to actually define your product to a point that anybody can gobuild it. You take a lot of that for granted and that got getsunder underappreciate. Getting be a massive time commitment they didn't think about or hirefor absolutely and that's an area to where I feel like it's good to getsomeone who's led a manufacturing process in a startup context before, in part becausethey know to look for a contract manufacturer that can function with the startup likelike they know to look for a contract manufacturer that is used to dealing withmessy documentation or is used to having to help start up source when they don'tknow how to do it, versus in a larger company. Often, oftenthe company already has a lot of skill sets which, as a startup,you'll be relying on your contract manufacturer for. The other big area about about beinga big fish in a small pond. We have worked with a couple contractmanufacturers before and especially in our early years, we felt a lot ofpressure to partner with a large international contract manufacture and that pressure, honestly,wasn't coming from customers. It wasn't so much about needing to cut costs.It was more like it was more like proof of scalability. Like in thebeginning we were really concerned with scalability and I think to facilitate our own fundraises, like to attract venture capital, we thought it was really important tofind some large international contract manufacture just to demonstrate that there would be no supplyshortage if demand really took off, just to say, like hey, you'reinvesting millions of dollars in us, we're going to spend a lot of thatin sales and marketing. Even if demand goes through the roof. We've gotthis huge international contract manufacture, like there's no way will ever not not beable to produce enough machines, and it was this way of kind of conveyingthat we were serious. And in retrospect, I think it was a mistake todo that too early. Like, I think I found that there areso many benefits to working with a like a small, often local, contractmanufacture in terms of like mind share, you know, like if you're workingwith a huge contract manufacture and you're a startup and you have a problem andthey're also sup boarding apple and apple has a problem, I mean apple isgoing to get their help, like we're not going to get their help.Versus if it's a small contract manufacturer. Where we make up a significant shareof their business, then will be the the client that gets support, whetherit's support with quality or support with working with suppliers or whatever issue there maybe. And the other issue here is actually that a lot of people don't thinkabout this, but often, if you're in the hardware business, your contractmanufacturer is a bigger creditor than your bank. That's something that I did not fullyappreciate, but but often the way it works is your contract manufacturer placespurchase orders for all the components that go into your hardware device several months outand they're paying for those in advance of delivery and an advance of assembling machines, and that can add up. In our company and in many other companies, that can add up to millions of dollars of component costs being floated byyour contract manufacturer. And you probably, like when selecting the CM, orat least historically, like we when it's selecting our contract manufacturers, didn't alwaysappreciate that, like we didn't always appreciate...

...that this is not just a productionpartnership. This is a serious financial partnership as well. And the same waythat we're very careful about selecting what bank we work with or what investor wework with, essentially realizing that your contract manufacture is investing in you too,and you're more likely to get good investment terms when it's a company that reallycares about you, where you're where you're a very important part of their business. That's great, sewan. Follow up question, when you're talking about youknow you're just talking about outsourcing and what that looks like as you guys havegone through the product development, would have been some, you know, criticallyimportant things that you guys have selected to outsource to a partner, looking forlike technical things, not like brand help work, but like in the actualproduct? What are some times when you said, Hey, for example firmware, you know, we're going to go out and find a partner because thisis really important. It's an extremely specialized skill we're can you think of anexample of the time where either you did that or you wish you had themthat? Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. All our has mentioned, all ourmanufacturing, like machine manufacturing, as well as all our flavor manufacturing,is is outsourced and done by partners. firmware is an interesting example we have. We have absolutely outsourced, outsourced firmware development before, in part because onon a lot of the electronic components in a machine, they don't need tobe iterated on all that much. It's more they have to be done rightonce and then maybe be modified from time to time, but done, butdone right before before your product is ready for manufacturing. So for a lotof that work that doesn't need to be constantly iterated on, we found thatit's it can be more efficient to outsource it and and just make sure you'regetting the right partner. But like make sure your prioritizing the right partner interms of work. I wish we had. I wish we had outsourced one area. I go back and forth on it, but but one area,when I think about our early product development, we spent an enormous amount of timeon the physical look and feel of the machine. Like we put alot of effort into the frames of our initial machines and I remember when wewere first producing them back in two thousand and fifteen, two thousand and sixteen, like at one point we spent a couple months just trying to get thedoors to like fit properly and we realize the doors can actually doors on likea large steel machine can actually be quite difficult to align and they can getbent or messed up in shipping. And we spent a couple months working onthat ourselves and didn't really at the time think about the opportunity cost. Andthis is at a time when we had a smaller team to so the opportunitycost was more serious, and what I realized is like, in retrospect,the opportunity cost was that a lot of actual beverage components which determine the temperature, the carbonation level, the flavor mixing, the the the reliability and consistency ofthe beverages that people get. A lot of those we were just what. We were just buying off the shelf, just because that was faster and andthat's what we had time for, given all the all the effort we'reputting into like the physical frame of the machine and like that's an area where, in retrospect, there are a lot of companies out there that are greatat making doors, like we could have pretty easily outsturce that and found somecompany that could make a door that sealed...

...properly, and we should have insteadprobably focused on the areas where there's real where there's real ip you know,like actual proprietary areas that determine the success of the business, like like thethe all the components that mix the beverages themselves and give users the right experience. It's interesting at where. So where we are with very we've kind ofbuilt a complete end to end, like from the user or phase, theUiux, to the Front End, to the cloud back end, to thehardware, to the physical practicigns. Like we can do all these different thingsand people come to us with a very crazy range of asks and what wetry to do is say, look, if you're going to do a thing, if you need to be able to do a thing over and over againfor every generation or continuously stay on top of it, that's the thing youreally should staff up when we can help you do that. We can helpyou find the right people to do that, but it's important that you have thatcapability and where we think we try to step in, just like thedoor manufactor, and the door example, is a place where we have agreat expertise set that can solve a problem that you need to solve once andthat you can maximize that value from. But you don't need every single time. I think that's kind of how our business model works and why we thinkit brings value to companies like yours. Yeah, and I'm sure there's stilla lot of repeat business for you guys in that right, if you havelike a version too soon enough to come anas a version two point one orversion two point two or their new features they want. So it's like they'restill still a hundred hundred percent. What winds up happening is a lot oftime. Like they have such a great experience as working with sins that they'llin their next generation and they'll have a different onetime thing they need to godo and they know that while they did it different one time thing with thislast time, they know we also have the skill set to cover that thisone time, and so they they kind of moves around the expertise set dependingon where they are in their product list. Like that's interesting. That makes sense, John. Moving towards close now two questions for you. One Idon't this is this is definitely solidly the world according to Ryan, but youand I had a you and I and Luke had a really interesting conversation aboutphilosophy in the pre interview and turned out that all of us had recently readPlato's Republic, which, I mean good luck getting three people together that hadrecently read that, but I was just kind of curious to read it.So and now I don't know why Luke read it, but love. Ithink of philosophy. You asked me why I was interested in it and Itook the weekend to really think about the answer and I think that for methe answer was I really am interested in uncovering fundamental truths, you know,things that are just fundamentally true and I S. I find that often inphilosophy. Whether or not you agree with that definition, I'm not going toask a guy, a Princeton Guy, who studied nothing but philosophy, whetheror not I've defined philosophy correctly. Let's move past that. My question is, what's a fundamental truth you've discovered about Iot? I mean, I haven't, I haven't thought about it this way before, but it's funny right,like like if you view philosophy as this like search for search for truth.I mean what's Nice about Iote is that it just gives you more information.It gives you more information to do whatever you want with and you might noteven know why that information is valuable until after you have it or until untila certain moment or certain challenge occurs. So that's anyway. That's that's onething right, that it's just this this source of knowledge about your own productin your own cust stommers. And another. Another really interesting thing I found withIot, and this is something we haven't taken enough advantage of yet butideally will over time, is that the more objects you''re connecting, essentially likethe more valuable the overall data set of...

...like Iot things becomes. Like thereare their pieces of information that might not be particularly useful on their own butmight be very useful when coupled with other information. So, like an exampleof this would be for a bevery bevy user. We don't asside from ourtouch this dispensing web AC we don't currently have like a user APP where users, say, store their preferences. But part of the reason, part ofthe reason we haven't developed one yet. Part of it is just bandwidth andpriorities, but but it's also because there's not all that much exciting information totrack other than like how much water you're drinking, maybe what vitamins you're consuming. Let like some basic info like that, and on its own that's probably notparticularly interesting to track, like how many drinks today you're getting. Butwhat I realize is like in tandem with other information, if someone has thatinformation but they also have a fitbit or a whoop and they also know,like how well they slept or how good they feel or, overall, howhealthy they are, and all of a sudden you can correlate. You cancorrelate the information and realize that, like, Oh, when you drink more wateror when you drink this amount, this is the right this is theright amount for you for you to like feel good or sleep well or havea great workout. That starts becoming really interesting. So I think like themore the more we can combine data sets, the more valuable at all becomes.So follow up question, Shawn. It's the time of Skynet and therobot, the machine uprising has begun. Bevy's machines are out front in inthe assault against the humans. Do you feel incredibly proud that your machines areintelligent enough to be to play a leadership role in the uprising, or areyou horrified that you have helped make skynet possible. I'm a I'm a JohnConner Fan, so so probably probably more horrified. Yeah, yeah, it'sfunny. We once we once interviewed we once interviewed this guy and he hewas a software engineer and I asked him why he was excited to join bevyand like the answer was typically. Let like a typical answer would be likeI'm excited about the environmental impact, or like I love Iot and I thinkI devices are fun. Like those would be typical answers and his answer waslike he's like, if hevy succeeds, you'll eventually control people's water supply becauseyou'll have the device, you'll have the device between the municipal tap that's purifyingthe water and creating water that people can drink. And he's like, guesspollution increases, this will become more and more valuable and eventually, like thecompany that controls the world's water supply will have the most power. And Iwas like, Oh my God, we can sever yeah, return, Iknow, I know. And he was really he was really excited about thatpotential power and I was like, I don't think he's a good fit forus. But so we didn't hire him. But but yeah, yeah, itis. It is scary, I guess, when you think of likew yeah, yeah, when you think of all of the data, kindof all of the data available on us, I think in our case it's relativelybenign, like like we're not collecting personal info. You know, Ithink in our case it's all it's all relatively benign. Last question, what'sa company in the IOT space that you guys really look up to and admire? You know somebody that Bevy says, Hey, that's we want to belike them when we grow up. The company that that we most emulate,I'd say, is Peloton. Also,...

I mean we also it's hard tobe in the hardware business and not think about apple. You know what wealso have, for think about think about what we can learn from Apple.But I'd say the company we most emulate is Peloton, just in terms ofthey they took what was considered a boring product, in their case a stationarybike, in our case a water machine. They completely redesigned it with extreme focuson the user experience, like really trying to get the details right sothat people love the product. They created a recurring revenue business model, whichwe did as well. And and they really have now built a brand aroundhow good their product is, like both the physical product itself as well asthe the content that they stream, and that is the same opportunity I seefor a bevvy like that. That's essentially what we're trying to do, toreally create this product that's best in class, that just relies on excellent engineering andlike build a brand around it that that becomes extremely difficult to imitate because, like you can't copy the brand unless you can outdo our years of engineering. We are also huge fans of pelaton telephones, a big client of ours. But so it sounds like the takeaway is there's there's a lot of thingsthat can be maybe copied or fast followed, but, you know, a reallywell engineered into end product is not one of those things. There's reallyno shortcut, and that's the piece that you guys are saying. Peloton didthat. That's that's the bevy approach, exactly exactly, like, rather thanhaving our brand be based on like awesome TV ads or like a celebrity sponsoror something that, with money, you can kind of quickly copy, likeit's really hard if your brand is built around quality, even with a lotof money, it's really hard to to outdo another company on the details ofthe engineering and the product experience without putting in the work, like without goingthrough the design cycles and seeing yourself what goes wrong and fixing that over time. So so I just feel like, especially if you're a startup where youdon't have a lot of money but you do have good people and debt andand dedicated people, it's really an upper and where your first to market,it's really an opportunity to to get a legout. So Sean. For Allthe philosophers out there listening today, we're as we moved to wrap this episodeup. For All the philosophers turned entrepreneurs that want to follow you, where, where can folks find you out on the Internet? I do not reallyhave a social media presence, like, I'm not I'm not really linkedin ishonestly, it's pretty lame. But linkedin is like the only social media APPthat I use. So so I guess Linkedin. or You could just emailme my emails, just my first name, at Bevy dot CEO. So Seawan, seam at BEVYTC. Couldn't afford the m all right, boats that'sit. For today. I'm Ryan. This is Luke. Thanks for listening. See you guys on the Internet. Thanks, guys. You shouldn't haveto worry about IOT projects dragging on or unreliable vendors. You've got enough onyour plate. The right team of Engineers and project managers can change a pivotalmoment for your business into your competitive edge. Varies. Close Knit crew of ambitiousproblem solvers, continuous improvers and curious builders know how to turn your ideasinto a reality on time and up to your standards, with a focus onmitigating risk in maximizing opportunity, will help you build an Iot solution that youcan hang your hat on. Let's bring your Iot idea to life. Learnmore at very possiblecom. You've been listening...

...to over the Air Iot connected devicesand the journey. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure to hit subscribein your favorite podcast player and give us a rating. Have a question oran idea for future episode? Send it to podcast at very possiblecom. Seeyou next time.

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