Jumping Into the Ring w/ a Punchable Computer

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Typical hardware devices aren’t designed to withstand getting punched repeatedly every day. One reason is most hardware isn’t meant to be punched. Another reason is it’s pretty hard to develop hardware for that purpose.


In this episode, Jeff Morin, CEO and Founder at Liteboxer, discusses how his team tackled the challenges of creating a home boxing hardware platform that gamifies the workout experience.


Topics covered:

- Developing hardware in the consumer space

- Strategies for raising capital

- Leaving room for iteration

- Determining core competencies and finding the right team


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Anytime harder is involved, make surethat you got a good, good playbook and plan in place, because adollar today could end up causing you ten or hundred dollars tomorrow for every mistake. You are listening to over the Air Iot connected devices and the journey broughtto you by vary. In each episode we have sharp, unfiltered conversations withexecutives about their IOT journeys, the mistakes they made, the lessons they learnedand what they wish they'd known when they started. Welcome back to over theAir IOT connected devices in the journey. My Name Is Ryan and today we'rejoined by Jeff Moren, CEO and Co founder of light boxer, and we'regoing to be talking about the unique challenges behind building a punchable hardware computer.Jeff, thanks for being on the show. Thanks for having me. Great tobe here. So right off the Bat, let's address some of theconfusion behind what in the world does it mean to be building a punchable computer? Key, tell us about light boxer, what you guys are doing and yeah, just give us a little bit of background. Sure, yeah,it's a light box. Are It's we packed a lot of technologies and athome fitness product. But basically we're sitting at the crossroads of fitness, musicand gaming. And so what light boxer is? Is it this hardware thatdelivers workouts similar to having a sparring partner in your home. So there's ashield with a bunch of sensors on it and over two hundred led lights thatshow you when and where to punch. And so what we're trying to dois fuse a bunch of elements of gaming. So you think of like what makesgaming so addictive and what makes it fun in something that you want todo when you're when you're at home and chilling out, and then fuse thatwith fitness, which we all know it's healthy but sometimes sucks, and puttingthose two together to get this fusion that delivers. I call it like thesport mentality. Right, what makes something so fun that you want to dowith your buddies and do it for a couple hours a day or whatever?And that essentially we're trying to hack people's brain so that they make working outa habit in something that they actually want to do. So we've we useboxing as our core modality, because boxing is one of the best workouts perunit time. You have to pay attention or else you're going to get apunch in the face in the real world. So with with light boxer, timekind of just melts away and you you really lean into the music andwe especially in our programming, music is everything. We have a unique partnershipwith Universal Music Group where we're allowed to use any of their music and everythingthat is done on light boxer is to the beat of songs and it's allstuff you hear on the radio. It's the newest stuff that's out there that'sdropping every week. And then we fuse that and we put choreography behind theworkouts, whether it's a trainer led workout...

...where the trainer showing you when andwhere to punch, how to stand, giving you tips and kind of motivatingyou, or the other way we can work out with people is through quickplay and in that mode, which is very unique to like boxer, youcan actually select the song that you want to to box to and then youget scored on your timing and accuracy and force and you can use that tokind of challenge friends and challenge the community and it's definitely an additional layer thatallows people that more freedom of choice and more interactivity. So I follow upquestion for you. We've gotten really familiar with you guys as product, hugefans. I think what you guys have built is really cool. If you'relistening out there, take a look the way that they've built lights and musicinto it. I think is a very interesting product. But one of thethings that we hear a lot on consumer grade hardware is the size of theinvestment. Even if people think they understand up front, it's probably beyond eventhat. If you were to go through, like if you were to sit downwith someone and they were saying, Hey, Jeff, I'm considering I'vegot this idea, we've got a prototype, were about to take it to thenext level. Like what are some things that you think somebody, thata person, should be thinking about before embarking on developing a hardware product inthe consumer space? Yeah, so with hardware specifically, I think it's atotally, a totally different game. You'll hear, you know, the theoverplayed hardware is hard mantra. But like it really is, because you mustplan way far in advanced like there's a lead time to every segment within thesupply chain and basically like, unlike software assass product, where you can justlike your users can be your testers and you can cut stuff up and inchange change code that changes looker feel overnight. With hardware you are making decisions formonths or sometimes years down the line that will affect your user. Sothere's way more, I'd say, planning, and definitely more planning involved, andcapital as well. That needs to get tied up right. So withhardware there's tooling investments, you have to understand the supply chain and logistics.That might not be as clear or simple as you might think. So Ithink making sure that you have this product market fit, which is super important, and that you understand the needs of your customer beforehand is really important,and then allowing yourself room like so we're we have software that runs on ourhardware. So any of our shortcomings we want to make sure that we canwe still have that quick turn software side that we can we can change stuffon later on. But in general I just say any time hardware is involved, make sure that you got a good a good playbook and plan in place, because a dollar today could end up causing you ten or hundred dollars tomorrowfor every mistake. I want to unpack that, that playbook idea, andalso talk about the fund raise process.

I we that is a brutally difficultprocess. I we hear it all the time at very you know, we'reonly dealing with companies on the other side of having done it, so weonly talk to the folks that have had had a successful outcome, but wehear about the process. I know that only a small fraction of VC's areinterested in that space. Can you talk about your journey a little bit andand what it was like to raise funds versus you know, I'm sure youhave friends that started sass companies. They've met with, you know, probablya small fraction of the number of venture capitalists and got more money much moreeasily like. What was it like for you? For me, I wasactually really fortunate my cofounder, Todd Dagress, he's he is a VC guy.He started spark capital, which is very successful Boston based VC company.So he he kind of already had a playbook and I'd say he was thefounder who had the finance and backing side down already, and he reached outto me as like the tech guy, saying like Hey, I have thisidea, let's build it. And so I like over the past for fiveyears, I've been able to learn, learn in front of from one ofthe greats, and he's kind of shown like hey, we got to likefigure out that product market fit. Like let's make some let's make some stuff, let's throw some Spaghetti on the wall, see what sticks and then put thatback in the pot and like make more of it and more of itand and refine this idea. And as you were building light boxer, itwas definitely it was one of the most organic product of developments that I've everbeen a part of, because we were trying to meet this need where toddwas taught, is actually a boxer and he tried doing it at home whenhe's it sucked and he's like there's got to be something better and like whatmakes working out fun? We kept adding these layers of motivation on top ofeach other and that kind of guided US along this path of what we're buildingtoday. But we didn't have a vision of light boxer as it is,like this is what it's going to be, this is what it's going to comeout to be. And when you don't have a super clear vision.You can, you can spend money and burn money really fast, right,like if you just said, like I think this is just what should be, let's kick off tooling and do it, that's not good. That's not theright path. So what we did was very nimbly and and conservatively,like built prototypes, tested them out, made sure it worked. It feltright and, like you know, you, Bryan, you're always talking about likethat sparkle and or like the intensity spark when your eye, like whenyou have a user step on and like you have that Aha moment. That'swhat you're looking for, and it doesn't come right away right. It takesit takes some time, and I think we were able to find that ina few different places, which is when we really knew we had something special. Do you think that, you know, you've mentioned a lot in the preinterview and then again today, this relationship with your partner Todd, andthat that gave you some pretty big tail...

...winds? So, like when thatyou're back in the fundraising process, would you discourage, do you think,someone from developing a consumer hardware product if they did not have pre existing relationships? Do you think you got you would have been successful if you would haveneeded to go start this from scratch. The fundraise sign. Yeah, Ithink. I definitely think it can be done. Like people do it allthe time and there's a lot of tools out there to help write. LikeI'm hy combinator, for example. They have like amazing, amazing guides onlike how do you raise capital, like where do you find these angels?Same thing with like kickstarter in indiegog. I like, I know, likea lot of people have been burned by those, but it's also a greatway to like test the product market fit and make sure that people are vibingwith your idea, right. Like my friend just launched this measurement tool.It's called recon tools, and he did that on kickstart, an indigo go. Matrede a great following and then and then he got the capital to createthat the tooling that he needed, right, and he kind of like brought hismost excited users through this journey of him building it. And those,like those people who backed him are like going to be super enthusiastic, right, they're not. They, like I believe in this idea and I wantto see it success. So I've done I've done kickstarters in the past forother ideas and stuff, and so it definitely can be done. There's alsolike not being a shame to like ask friends and family for money. Likeit's a tricky it's definitely a tricky place. You want to make sure that youshould not just like taking advantage of folks, but also like that bothsides are making out in the deal right. So when you're ready to go there, it's always an option and something to consider, for sure. Yeah, I think the the friends and family round is really hard for a lotof people. In fact, I think if it's not hard for you,that is its own signal, like you may not be taking it seriously enough, but you might be an asshole. Yes, you might be. Youmight be an asshole if you are, you know, taking much like yourparents. I think a lot of parents are like willing to write off ak one time thing, like okay, Jeff had an idea, we tookthe shot whatever. But Man, when you get into like the ants anduncle's and kind of the like outer perimeters of your they are not going toeasily forget the time that they put fifty. Like you're going to be hearing aboutthat for many thanksgivings and I when I talk with entrepreneurs, you know, I'm like, do not go out to a friends and family round untilyour game is really tight, because it's not that the the the funds aredifficult to raise. They may be difficult, but that's not the point. It'sthat, like you will see these people for the rest of your lifeand you want to make sure that you took the best shot you could possiblydodd everything you could to de risk this thing and hit it hard, becausefor a lot of people like you, can only do a friends and familyround just that one time, you know,...

...and then the combination of like shameand fundraising fatigue really does not set up for like a fresh round.If you did return the first round. Did did you guys do a friendsand family round at light boxer it so todd. I mean he's well connected. So like we brought in some other investors that he had had participated inanother companies with him before. So I'd say my friends and family were notas influentialle but and now you guys are. You guys are wildly successful now.So now the friends and families going the other way and they're saying,Hey, where was my opportunity to invest in this. Why didn't you?Are you? Have you had some of that? I've had high school friendslike, Hey, man, I wanted to put some money in. Likewhy didn't I get want I get to do it. You never give youthat chance. But yeah, like it's the same thing, like hiring families. Like how do you fire? Like it's not about the hiring. Sure, I give anyone in job, but then when you're like okay, nowwe need to can't fire your family, right. So you don't want tolet them down. So, yeah, I agree with you hundred percent.You want to make sure that it's rock solid and that you're ready. You'reready. Yeah, that. But the the family thing is really interesting,and now we're totally off script. So about you know, at very thatwas a mentality shift that we had to make culturally. was like stopping sayingthis phrase. You know, we're like a family, because it's true.You really cannot fire family. Can't fire your mother, you can't fire yourfather, you know, as much as you might want to, I don'tknow. I guess maybe Britney Spears is actively trying to and if you're listeningto this too far in the future, that's a funny joke in July,two thousand and twenty one. Let's see how I don't know that will beat all funny in a few months, but it's funny now. And youknow, we really think of it and talk about it more as a tribeand this idea that people have a specific job and that like they are partof a community and we viewed as an important community and we take our communityseriously. But you know, people are there's a requirement that they be greatat the the task that they do. They're the thing that they do withinour tribe. Is that? Like did you guys get into some trouble inthe early days, like it was this family thing, a lesson you hadto learn by touching the stove and burning your hand, or like how didyou get to this place at light, boxer? I don't think it's.We don't. I think it's is a personal thing, like you said,like I wouldn't want to have to fire my brother, and I think youkind of hit the nail on the head. Like there's like I tried. Everyonehas a role a family. You can just be a brother and right, yeah, you're gonna like eat my your mother will always love you.But that's not how it works. When, like, when there's money on thetable and you have to you know, you have to get returns for thosepeople that like believed in you and put put money in. It's notabout it's not about handouts, it's about producing something that is is of value. So let's talk about the most important thing, the holy grail every techcompany is constantly searching for and and,...

...if they have it, fighting tomaintain elusive product, market fit. So, if you're if you're hearing this forthe first time, first of all, welcome to technology companies. Product,markeet fit, in my view, is more important than everything else combined. If you have it, nothing else matters, and if you don't haveit, nothing else matters. Can you talk about in a consumer hardware product? You talked a minute ago about like the sparkle, like you're iterating,iterating, iterating, until you like deliver that sparkle moment for the user.What did that look like for light boxer? And feel free to like share someof the stories of I don't know what's the opposite of sparkled dead eyeduser feedback? Okay, this does not do it for me. You know, what did you guys get wrong? What did it start to look likeas you were getting it right over to you? We definitely had a lotof black luster moments with especially my wife, can attest spells there can be sohonest. I mean it's like that. They're a critical part of the wholeprocess, but it's also brutal in the moment. Oh yeah, soI'd say like early on we knew we wanted music and we knew we wantedlike this thing you punched, like when you think of boxing, the firstthing you think of is a heavy bag, right, like and that we haveother competitors that have stuff that's heavy bag bits. But we found likewe were trying to wrap electronics and like sensors and stuff onto a heavy bagand that was difficult for UN a few reasons. The shape is like youdon't see like computers. Again, going back to punching computers, you don'tsee many like circular computers. But also, just to be able to do that, there's a lot of a lot of things you have to do inmanufacturing processes, whether it's special connectors or special PCBA's, and for us,for a product that you're punching all day and various degrees. Product Riolo.Reliability is like core ten at number one right. You need to make surewe hit that right. So I'd say another thing was like that the ideaof sport that I talked about earlier and like feeling that like what we havethis thing called the flow state. We're trying to get our users to theflow state and that's where your ability meets the challenge that's presented. And whenyou get that right and you're like you're you feel like you're in the zoneand you're like skating and having its good vibe, like that moment is aspark in its own and so early on we have like we had lights thatwere flashing to the beat of the music, but there it was hard to likeget to that, that flow state, because there was no way to likepractice and get better. It was more reactionary, like how quick canyou move and like react to those lights and flashing, even though there's stinksync to the beat of the music. It was hard to describe. Sowhen we came up with the ideas of like these runway lights that show youwhen and where to punch, now there's some skill behind it and that's wherelike that was like one of the first Aha moments we had, like wecan make this more sport like, just like you practice or you can seesomeone coming down the court and you know...

...where to go next. That's whatkind of like those lights are doing for our users, and it's like justlike a sparring partner telling you, calling out where to punch and stuff.So, say, that was a big moment. And then, like,I'd say one of the biggest like sparkle moments for me, it was likewe went to a video game conference actually packs East and Boston. We hadto very early prototype light boxers and we were in the section and called theIndie Mega booth, which is basically where like people who make video games athome, like my display some stuff, or indie developers, and so herewe are across from Oculus and in Nintendo and Sony and everyone in. Likewe had these two light boxers and people came there dressed up in cosplayoff.It's like Mario and Luigi and princess peach coming down to punch this thing,and they did not come to work out, they came to play like fun videogames, and we like got a couple people on their blasts and somemusic and they like you could see, they put the gloves on. Theyit sparkles in their eyes. They started punching this thing. They get backright, back in line. They wanted to do it again and again andit was so cool because like again, like these people didn't come to workout, but they were just like this feel so good. I like I'mexcited to be like standing moving and it was like it was clicking with them. You will not see me and many photos there because I was under thetable slaughtering the device as they were, as people were punching up. Iremember like I'd like I'd hear some big dude like start smashing the prototype andI'd be like, Oh Gosh, I got a sawder another one beside,say for like four days I learned. I got really up to my solteringskills in terms of for for fixing these things. But that was super cooland it like, I think, for both taught and myself, that waslike our actual like this we've hit product market fit like these customers who younever think we called. We actually call them in our own decks the uninspiredright people who don't work out every day. Maybe they go for they say theygo for a run once a month or something. But like if wecan make something that these guys want to use, then people who actually dowant to work out, like they're going to love it even more. Right. So that was definitely the biggest Aha moment and like kind of guided alot of our decisions from there in terms of like where we went next withthe product and the programming. Yeah, it's funny the like how product marketfeel, eels it are when you when you hit that fit moment, youknow we're really clicks that you can hear an audible like clicking into place.It feels a little bit like a concert, like a party. You know,things feel light, they just work and you're end and just like aparty, especially if you're hosting the party, is a lot of shit going wrongbehind the scenes, you know, like the kit you know you're tryingto like get the food out on time and do the whatever. And thenhow it looks often is also as you described, like people are really engagingwith the thing and what you're hearing a...

...lot is I can't get this anywhereelse. This does a thing for me that nothing else does for me,because if they're like hey, this is just like x, but it's lessexpensive. Like that's cool, but now you're kind of in a different game. Now you're it's like a cost competitiveness game. But you know what thereally powerful product, Ma get fit is often like I'm getting a thing orexperience that I cannot get any other way, and I can see that with yourproduct. So you guys are obviously a hardware product. You take softwareincredibly seriously and you've created some skills or around music and lighting and so forth, and so I have some core competency questions in a second, but fornow talk about like leaving yourself the room to make iterations as you learn.So you shift a million units or whatever and you learn some that. Likehow do you what does it look like to for company that got a shiphard were cannot easily ship updates, and yet you want to leave yourself roomlike meaningful upgrade paths in the future. How do you guys think about that? Like we're always listening to our users and we're getting feedback, like evenat the end of a workout, yes, like did you like this, orwhere did you like? If you check out, where did you hearabout this. But then we have like product managers on the team. They'reactually calling our customers and like getting feedback of like what's your favorite thing aboutlight box, or what's the thing you hate about it? Right, andlike bringing up those like powerful emotions that can kind of guide what we're workingon next. We have like a strong desire to be like a household,name, like Hey, I light box today, and like owning immersive fitness, and so it's like how do we do that? How do we likepush the boundaries on what we're building to make sure that no one else canlike step into our ring? No Pun intended, but but like basically saying, like how do we push our own boundaries to own like where we wantto grow and like where we see the marketing ground going, and I thinkjust like we change like the genres of music to meet our customers and who'spurchasing like maybe our early customers really loved Bon jovie and ore at like latercustomers like a sap rocky way, more like right. So there's this alent'sin terms of like how we meet the needs of everyone that you can't youtry to serve a bunch of masters. You're not going to. You're notgoing to be the best at any one of them, right. So,like you have to pick a lane that you know you can own and thatyou know you can be the best at at. What's the saying? It'slike being different. Is it always better? But the best is always different,right, so that there's a reason why there's something like that. There'sa reason why the best is like the best, right. And so,like you have to own that lane and you might not be good at something, but you definitely stuff. That's a perfect segue to the last topic thatI wanted to ask you about. It's...

...something that, like, we're reallypassionate about, it very and it's often the thing that people come to usto try to solve, for this idea of what I call the wrong sideof impossible, you know. So to be different, technically different. Soyou're for your product to be technically different, you have to have solved something thatstarted on the wrong side of impossible and you figured it out and yourproduct is the thing that does the thing, and you know, because it's upimpossible up to that point, like it's usually pretty hard. Have alot of questions on this. But to start with, is there a problemthat or problems that you feel like you guys had to address or have addressedthat started on the wrong side of impossible. Yeah, I mean, I thinkgoing to that product reliability and like punching a computer screen, like likewe wanted to make something that is durable, like the lat the last thing youwant is like yeah, this same breaks because like that bad review earlyon is like the worst thing. It can like kill your company. So, like, as I was saying, I got with like the packs eastwhere I was sawdering, like that sucks, but I definitely learned about how notto make the products. So I think you look at light boxing,you're like why does it look like this? Right, like wise it looks likesomething out of like an Alien Verse Predator Movie Sometimes, and I thinklike that's probably one of our biggest hurdles, is educating people like why it's betterand why it looks the way it does. But a partner. Theother part of that is like it does that to not because it just wethink it looks cool, but it fills a reason of like having a curvecircuit board. We are having a lot of like led's pop up pop offor like another reason another thing is like, oh, having a board with abunch of connectors. You think like, okay, you have this repeating setsix segments with like for sensors and a runway of led lights. Yousay. Any engineer would say, like, okay, you should just have likerepeat that for economies of scale, six of them, and just havea connector where they all connect in. For us, we learned like,Oh, we need to make a giant PCBA, probably the biggest PCBA likeI've ever seen here, like this is a giant board, and anyone belike, Yo, that's so dumb, like why would you make a boardthat big? That's a really expensive and it just like you could shrink itinto like six segments. But we learned that connectors are really expensive and connectorsare also like the most most likely place to fail, for sure. Andso when you're developing the same we learned to stay away from that kind ofstuff. And the same thing with the programming and the software. There's alot of you think it should be done one way and then you just haveto adjust. And so now and then we then we additional benefits, likepunching a curved surface, maybe punching bags also we're trying to solve this singlelike how do you make something that someone could punch? And so they justlike made a curds curve cylinder. Turns out like punching as curve surface isnot really great for your wrists because,...

...like every punch, you kind ofrolling. So for us now we have this benefit of like way less injuriesand and it's it's much better punching experience, and we hear this from from someof the pro boxers that try it out as well. Wrong side ofimpossible. Got To have a strong team. You doing a thing, a hardthing, never been done thing, but you're also searching for product marketfit at the same time, because you haven't quite landed there. It's elusiveoften in the early days. How do you how did you guys think aboutbuilding out the core team? So you're saying, Hey, we think we'regoing to do something that looks and feels like this punch triuble computer that servesthis boxing market. We're not exactly sure. We're music and lighting and these thingsfall and everything, but like broadly we have a pretty good idea.How did you guys think about core componencies, the core team versus okay, here'ssome areas that are very important, but we're not going to be excellentor we're not going to be able to be excellent. So we're going tofind a strong partner in those areas. How did light boxers think about teamin the early days and core company? Yes, I think so, team. You need to have a team you can trust, because you can't doeverything until like I think we were taught and I were lucky because you're sodifferent that we both fit. Like I kind of feel like puzzle pieces,like places. I'm I'm deficient. He like catches up and advice versa.So I think that was like having a strong cofounder and having like being ableto form an a team early on. That also fits, right. SoI'm a techi mechanical is my background. So like, obviously the first twonext hires are like a software guy and an electrical engineer, right. Andso building out a team to an areas that maybe you aren't so strong andbut can trust other folks like kind of obvious, but at the same time, like looking at what are what is the product we're building? Right,so we're building a media company, because we have all the mark we haveall this content and music and video of trainers and stuff. So that isone area that I have no experience in it. And then we also have, like we have the software, the software, there's three products, hardware, software and digital content. So like basically having leaders in each of thosegroups that own it. But then, like there are other places, likelike we're like you're saying you have to lean on folks that maybe you can'teven afford. So like we did a lot of contractors that we'd eventually hiredand like so, for like our music attorney, for example, like she'sshe's an expert in navigating those kind of the landscapes of like not getting sued, right, just like finding people you can trust and these these things andsaying, like okay, we like we can't afford you full time, butwe'll hire you like ten hours a week or something, and we just needgive us a roadmap that is smart and then we'll like we'll fill it inthe best weekend. And so I think that's like a big thing that wedid very numbly so that we didn't just...

...like burn all this money up front. We know we're no, we're deficient here. Will hire some contractors andmake it work that way. One of the you know, interview a lotof people here on the program and one of the trends I've noticed as there'sreally two kinds of founders of hardware tech companies. One is very nose downfocused on their own product. You know, the world could be blown up aroundthem, and they're like light boxer, is where my hundred percent focus is. And then you have these like, I guess I will call them likeindustry enthusiasts, and they are very aware of the ecosystem and what othercompanies are up to and maybe they see people at trade shows and so forthand they say hey, you know, you know they know people in someof these adjacent spaces that also make consumer products. which would would you say, like how do you think about? How is Jeff Looking at the space? And if you're that you know, I guess, regardless of which typeyou consider yourself, is there a product or company you know in the consumerIOT world that you're a fan of out there that especially like bonus points ifit's one nobody's talking about? I think I've more so. I think earlyon I was like the heads down, like the world could explode and likeI was just like I have to build this thing, we have to getit out there, and I was just like thinking of tooling and all thislike making sure we got it right. When we hit that like product marketfit moment, like I had to switch gears and like I put my marketingcap on, and marketing is like the biggest spend by far. We wantto be the company we know we can be, we have to like getout there in the wild, and so I've had to definitely switch my hatsmake sure that we're doing that, we're spending that money correctly. So it'sdefinitely changed. I think as least we come out with other products. Itwill probably keep going back and forth and I hope that like my team cansupport that. Other products. I mentioned my my friends recon tools. He'sgot like this m one caliber, which is, I think was so thecoolest thing. It's this this device that really it's like tape measures haven't changedforever and this is like a digital tape measure that goes on a minor sawand it's super cool and bringing technology to a space that it hasn't been supertech conscious. I guess like that kind of stuff hasn't changed a long time. So I think that kind of stuff and, as I mentioned, likehe's he kind of bootstrapped it, did it through kickstarter and it's it's areally cool product, bigger company that I love and if I get made funof a lot for talking about it, is like riobe tools, which islike, you know, they're not like it's not like you think like peopleare can be very snobby with their tools and like the wallt or Milwaukee guyor whatever, I like just having like a tool for any that moment whenyou like, Oh shit, I wish I had this tool, and solike they always are coming out with goofy...

...funny like different product lines. Butthe best thing is like the battery. The batteries that they have like allwork across all the different tools and I ended up using a lot of theirbatteries on my kids like power wheels and stuff and like doing home projects withthem and hacking them into stuff, and they just built so well. LikeI can, instead of buying a new power of battery, I just likewired in like one of the eighteen volt batteries and then that that runs thekids power wheels and I can quickly swap them out. So I think it'slike if Luke was on the show today. We do not recommend that you getinto power tool battery packs and start the line. But yeah, sodo walt users out there. You are on Nottice Riobe is hate. Hated, going to hate right now. The haters are going to hate because thisfor especially for certain type of Dad. You know, this is like avery passionate subject that the world will never agree on. But now, andI just wanted to give a shout to Ricon so this is recon our Koand I had to look them up this now, but if you're out therein TV land and you want to learn about a new product, they areare shout of the day. Jeff, were way over time. Man,this has been an awesome interview. If folks out there want to keep upwith you and the light boxer story, how what's a good way to dothat? All our handles are just at light box or so check us outon instagram. Actually, we're tick Tock, very focused on tick tock, surprising, and we've seen a lot of trends getting built in the Tech TockWorld, which you ask me if I would say that six months ago andsay you're crazy but yeah, at light box or is there I fall ourfine us on light boxercom and check us out. Okay, so if youare out there and you are over fifty years old, locate a millennial.They will help you navigate. Tick Tock and light boxer is spelled LTE,not L GHD LA. See eboxer. Jeff, it's been awesome. Man, thanks for being on the show it. We appreciate you being here today.Thanks, vint's appreciate every day. All right, everybody, thanks forlistening. We'll see you guys on the Internet. You shouldn't have to worryabout IOT projects dragging on or unreliable vendors. You've got enough on your plate.The right team of Engineers and project managers can change a pivotal moment foryour business into your competitive edge. Varies. Close Knit crew of ambitious problem solvers, continuous improvers and curious builders know how to turn your ideas into areality on time and up to your standards, with a focus on mitigating risk inmaximizing opportunity, will help you build an Iot solution that you can hangyour hat on. Let's bring your Iot idea to life. Learn more atvery possiblecom you've been listening to over the air, Iot connected devices and thejourney. If you enjoyed today's episode,...

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