Jumping Into the Ring w/ a Punchable Computer

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Typical hardware devices aren’t designed to withstand getting punched repeatedly every day. One reason is most hardware isn’t meant to be punched. Another reason is it’s pretty hard to develop hardware for that purpose.


In this episode, Jeff Morin, CEO and Founder at Liteboxer, discusses how his team tackled the challenges of creating a home boxing hardware platform that gamifies the workout experience.


Topics covered:

- Developing hardware in the consumer space

- Strategies for raising capital

- Leaving room for iteration

- Determining core competencies and finding the right team


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Any time harder is involved make surethat you got a good, a good playbook and playing in place, because a dollartoday could end up costing you ten or a hundred dollars tomorrow for everymistake, you are listening to over the air iotconnected devices and the journey brought to you by vary in each episode. We have sharpunfiltered conversations with executives about their iot journeys,the mistakes they made the lessons they learned and what they wish they'd knownwhen they started welcome back to over the air iotconnected devices in the journey. My name is ryan and today were joined byjeff moran, ceo and co, founder of light boxer and we're going to betalking about the unique challenges behind building a punchal hardware.Computer jeff, thanks for being on the show, thanks for having me great to be here so right off the bat. Let's addresssome of the confusion behind what in the world does it mean to be building apunch, able computer okay, tell us about light box or what you guys aredoing and yeah just give us a little bit of background sure yeah so lightpox er, it's we packed a lot of technologies and at home fitnessproducts, but basically we're sitting at the cross roads of fitness, musicand gaming. And so what light boxer is. Is this this hardware that deliversworkouts similar to having a spang partner in your home? So there's theshield with a bunch of sensors on it and over two hundred led lights thatshow you when and where to punch, and so what we're trying to do is fuse abunch of elements of gaming, so you think of like what makes gaming soaddictive and what makes it fun and something that you want to do whenyou're, when you're at home and showing out and then fuse that with fitness,which we all know is healthy but sometimes sucks and putting those twotogether to get this fusion that delivers. I call it like, like thesport mentality, right, what makes something so fun that you want to dealwith your buddies and do it for a couple hours a day or whatever, andthen essentially we're trying to hackpeople's brains so that they make working out a habit in something thatthey actually want to do. So we use boxing as a core modality, becauseboxing is one of the best workouts per unit time. You have to pay attention,or else you canna get a punch in the face in the real world so with withlight box, er time kind of just melts away, and you really lean into themusic, and we, especially in our programming music, is everything wehave a unique partnership with universal music group where we'reallowed to use any of their music, and everything that is done on liebo is tothe beat of songs. And it's all stuff you hear on the radio, it's the neweststuff, that's out there that's dropping. Every week i mean we fuse that and weput choreography behind the workouts,...

...whether it's a trainer led workout,where the trainer showing you on and where to punch, how to stand, givingyou tips and kind of motivating you or the other way. We can work out withpeople as through quick play and in that mode, which is very unique tolightboxes. You can actually select the song that you want to to box to, andthen you get scored on your timing and accuracy in force, and you can use thatto kind of challenge, friends and challenge the community and it'sdefinitely an additional layer that allows people to more freedom of choiceand more interactive. So i follow a question for you. We'vegotten really familiar with you guys is product, huge fans. I think what youguys have built is really cool. If you're listening out there take a look,the way that they've built lights and music into it, i think, is a veryinteresting product. But one of the things that we hear a lot on consumergrade hardware is the size of the investment, even if people think theyunderstand up front, it's probably beyond, even that, if you were to gothrough like if you were to sit down with someone and they were saying, heyjeff, i'm considering i've got this idea. We've got a prototype, we'reabout to take it to the next level like what are some things that you thinksomebody that a person should be thinking about before embarking ondeveloping a hardware product in the consumer, space yeah. So with hardware.Specifically, i think it's a totally a totally different game. You'll hear youknow the the overplayed hardware is hard mantra, but like it really is because you must plan way.Fine advance, like there's a lead time to every segment within the supplychain and basically like, unlike software, a sash product where you canjust like your users, can be your testers and you can cut stuff up and change change code that changes, lookor feel overnight with hardware. You are making decisions for months orsometimes years down the line e that will affect your user, so there's waymore i'd, say, planning and definitely more planning involved in capital aswell. That needs to get tied up right. So with hard ware, there's, tooling,investments you have to understand the supply chain and logistics. That mightnot be as clear or simple, as you might think. So i think making sure that youhave this product market fit, which is super important and that you understandthe needs of your customer beforehand is really important and then allowingyourself room like so. We we have software that runs on our hardware, soany of our shortcomings. We want to make sure that we can. We still havethat quick turned software side that we can. We can change stuff on later on,but in general i just say any time harder is involved, make sure that yougot a good, a good playbook and playing in place, because a dollar today couldend up costing you ten or a hundred la tomorrow for every mistake. But i wantto unpack that that playbook idea and...

...also talk about the fund raise process.I we that is a brutally difficult process. We hear it all the time atvery you know we're only dealing with companies on the other side of havingdone it. So we only talk to the folks that have had have had a successfuloutcome, but we hear about the process. I know that only a small fraction ofvcs are interested in that space. Can you talk about your journey a littlebit and what it was like to raise funds versus you know, i'm sure you havefriends that started. Sass companies they've met with you know, probably asmall fraction of the number of venture capitalists and got more money muchmore easily like what was it like for you. For me, i was actually reallyfortunate. My cofounder tod degres. He is a vc guy. He started spark capitalwhich is very successful, boston based vc company. So he he kind of alreadyhad a play book and i'd say he was the founder who had the finance in backingside down already, and he reached out to me as like the tech guy saying likehey, i have this idea, let's build it, and so i like, over the past four or five years,i've been able to learn, learn front from one of the greats and he's kind ofshowing like hey. We got to like figure out that product market fit like. Let'smake, let's make some stuff, let's throw some spaghetti on the wall, seewhat sticks and then put that back in the pot and like make more of it andmore of it and refine this idea, and as you were building light boxer, it wasdefinitely it was one of the most organic product developments that i'veever been a part of, because we were trying to meet this need where todd wastaught, is actually a boxer and he tried doing it at home and it sucked-and he was like- there's- got to be something better and like what makesworking out fun. We kept adding these layers of motivation on top of eachother and that kind of guided us along this path of what we're building today,but we didn't have a vision of a life boxer as it is like this is what it'sgoing to be. This is what it's going to come out to be and when you don't havea super, clear vision, you can you can spend money and burn money really fastright like if you just said like. I think this is just what i should t be:let's kick off tooling, and do it? That's not good. That's not the rightpath. So what we did was very nimbly and and conservatively like builtprototypes tested them out made sure it were. I felt right and, like you know,you right and you're always talking about like that sparkle and are likethe intensity spark when you're e, like when you have a user step on and likeyou have that hot moment. That's what you're looking for and it doesn't comeright away right. It takes it takes some time and i think we were able tofind that in a few different places, which is when we we really knew. We hadsomething special. Do you think that you know you mentioned a lot in the preinterview and then again today this relationship with your partner taut,and that that gave you some pretty big...

...tail winds. So, like wind, at your backin the fund raising process, would you discourage? Do you think someone fromdeveloping a consumer hardware product if they did not have pre existingrelationships? Do you think you got? You would have been successful if youwould have needed to go start this from scratch? The fund raised sin yeah. Ithink i definitely think it can be done like people. Do it all the time andthere's a lot of tools out there to help right like a white comminate, forexample, they have like amazing, amazing guides on like how do you raisecapital like where do you find these angels same thing with like kickstarterand indigo go? I, like i know, like a lot of people, have been burned bythose, but it's also a great way to like test the product market fit andmake sure that people are bibing with your idea right, like my friend justwatched, this measurement tool called recon tools and he did that onkickstarted in igoo made sure i had a great following and then and then hegot the capital to create that the tooling that he needed right and hekind of like brought his most excited users through this journey of himbuilding it and those like those people who backed him are like going to besuper enthusiastic right. They're, not they're, like i believe in this idea,and i want to see it success. So i've done i've done kick starts in the pastfor other ideas and stuff, and so i definitely can be done ears. Also like not being ashamed to like ask friendsand family for money. Like it's a tricky, it's definitely a tricky place.You want to make sure that you not just like taking advantage of folks, butalso like that both sides are making out in the deal right. So when you'reready to go there, it's always an option and something to consider forsure yeah. I think the the friends and family round is really hard for a lot of people. Infact, i think, if it's not hard for you, that is its own signal at like youmight not be taking it seriously enough, but it might be an apple yeah, so youmight be, you might be an asshole. If you are, you know taking money like your parents,i think a lot of parents are like willing to write off a tk one timething like okay, jeff had an idea. We took the shot whatever, but man whenyou get into like the aunts and uncles and kind of the like outer perimetersof your. They are not going to easily forget the time that they put fiftylike you're going to be hearing about that for many thanksgivings, and i,when i talk with entrepreneurs, you know i'm like do not go out to afriends and family round until your game is really tight, because it's notthat that that the funds are difficult to raise, they may be difficult, butthat's not the point. It's that, like you, will see these people for the restof your life and you want to make sure that you took the best shot you couldpossibly do o did everything you could to de risk this thing and hit it hard,because for a lot of people like you can only do friends and family roundjust that one time you know and then...

...the combination of like shame andfundraising fatigue really does not set up for like a fresh round. If youdidn't return, the first round did: did you guys do a friends and family roundat a boxer? The todd i mean he's well connected solike we brought in some other investors that he had had participated in othercompanies with him before so i'd say my friends and family were not as in venta, and now you guys are you guys arewildly successful now. So now the friends and families go the other wayand they were saying hey. Where was my opportunity to invest in this? Whydidn't you are you? Have you had some of that? I've had high school friendlike me, hey man. I wanted to put some money in like. Why did i get o? Whatdid i get to? Do you never give you that chance, but yeah like it's thesame thing like hiring families like how do you fire like it's, not aboutthe hiring shure i'll, give anyone a job and then, when you're like okay?Now we need to. I can't fire your family right, so you don't want to letthem down so yeah. I agree with you underderstand. You want to make surethat it's rock solid and that you're ready you ready a that, but the familything is really interesting and now we're totally off script so about youknow at very. That was a mentality shift that we had to make culturallywas like stopping saying this phrase. You know we're a link of family becauseit's true, you really cannot fire a family can't fire, your mother, youcan't fire your father, you know as much as you might want to. I don't knowi guess maybe brittany spears is actively trying to and if you'relistening to this too far in the future, that's a funny joke in july, twothousand and twenty one. Let's see i do that will be at allfunny in a few months, but it's funny now and you know we really think of itand talk about it more as a tribe and this idea that people have a specificjob and that, like they are part of a community and we viewed as an importantcommunity and we take our community seriously. But you know people arethere's a requirement that they be great at the task that they do they'rethe thing that they do within our tribe is that, like did you guys get intosome trouble in the early days like i was this family thing, a lesson you hadto learn by touching the stove and burning your hand or like? How did youget to this place at light boxer? I don't think it's we don't. I think thisis a personal thing, like you said like i wouldn't want to have to fire mybrother and, i think, you've kind of hit the nail on the head like there islike a tribe. Everyone has a role, a family, you can just be a brother right,a jerk and, like my, your mother will always love you,but that's not how it works. When, like when there's money on the table- andyou have to you know- you have to get returns for those people that, likebelieve in you and put put money in it's not about it's, not about thehandouts, it's about producing something that is is of value. So,let's talk about the most important thing: the holy grail, every techcompany is constantly s searching for...

...and if they have it fighting tomaintain elusive product market fit. So if you're, if you're hearing this forthe first time, first of all welcome to technology companies. Product barkeet,in my view, is more important than everything else combined. If you haveit, nothing else matters, and if you don't have it nothing else, matters.Can you talk about in a consumer hardware product? You talked a minuteago about like the sparkle like you're iterating, iterated intertinge, untilyou like, deliver that sparkle moment for the user? What does that look likefor light boxer and feel free to like share some of thestories of i don't know with the office of sparkled dead, eyed user feedback?Okay, this does not do it for me, you know what did you guys get wrong? Whatdid it start to look like, as you were getting it right over to you? We definitely had a lot ofblack wester moments with, especially my wife can attest o workin. So honest, i mean it's likethat. Their critical part of the whole process, but it's also brutal in themoment oh yeah, so i'd say like early on. We knew wewant to use it and we knew we wanted like the thing you punch and like whatdo you think of boxing? The first thing you think of is a heavy bag right likeand that we have other competitors that have stuff that's heavy bag dates, butwe found like we were trying to rap electronics and like sensors and stuffon to a heavy bag, and that was difficult for a few reasons. The shapeis, like you, don't see like computers again going back to punching computers,you don't see many like circular computers, but also just to be able todo that. There's a lot of a lot of things you have to do in manufacturingprocesses, whether it's special connectors or special pcbs and for usfor a product that you're punching all day and various degrees product riolreliability is like core tenant number one right. You need to make sure we hitthat right. So i'd say. Another thing was like that: the idea of sport that italked about earlier in like feeling that, like what we have this thing,called the flow state we're trying to get our users to the flow state andthat's where your ability meets the challenge that's presented, and whenyou get that right and you're, like your, you feel like you're in the zoneand you're like skating and having is good bide like that moment is a sparkin its own and so early on. We have like we had lights that were flashingto the beat of the music, but it was hard to like get to that that flowstate, because there was no way to like practice and get better. It was morereactionary like how quick can you move and like react to those lights andflashing, even though their things sink to the beat of the music? It was hardto describe so when we came up with the ideas of like these runway lights, thatshow you when and where to punch. Now, there's some skill behind it and that'swhere, like that was like one of the first at moments. We had like we canmake this more sport like just like you practice, or you can see someone comingdown the court and you know where to go...

...next, that's what kind of like thoselights are doing for our users and it's like just like a spang partner, tellingyou calling out where a punch and stuff so to that was a big moment and then,like i'd, say one of the biggest like sparkle moments. For me, i was like wewent to a video game conference, actually tex east in boston, and we hadtwo very early prototype light boxers and we were in the section called theindian mega booth, which is basically where, like people who make video gamesat home, like might display some stuff or indie developers, and so here we are across from oculus and innintendo and sony and everyone and like we had these two white boxers andpeople came there dressed up in cost playoff. It's like marian, luigi andprincess peach coming down to punch this thing and they did not come towork out. They came to play like fun, video games and we like got a couplepeople on there, blasting some music and they like you, could see they putthe gloves on. They had sparkles in their eyes. They started punching thisthing. They get back right back in line. They wanted to do it again and again,and it was so cool because, like again like these people didn't come to workout, but they were just like this feel so good. I like i'm, excited to be likestanding moving and it was like it was clicking with them. You will not see mein many photos there, because i was under the table sattering the device asthey were, as people were punching up. I remember like i, like i hear some bigdude like start smashing the prototype and i'd be like oh gosh. I got a souteranother one, so i'd say for like four days i learned i got really up to mysoddering skills in terms of for fixing these things, but that wassuper cool and it like, i think, for both taught and myself. That was likeour actual, like this. We've hit product market fit like these customerswho you never think we call, we actually call them in our own decks theuninspired right people who don't work out every day. Maybe they go for theysay they go for a run once a month or something but like if we can makesomething that these guys want to use, then people who actually do want towork out like they're going to love it even more right. So that was definitelythe biggest moment and like kind of guided a lot of our decisionsfrom there in terms of like where we went next with the product and theprogramming yeah, it's funny the like how product market feels it whenyou hit when you hit that that fit moment, you know where it really clicks.If you can hear an audible like clicking into place, it feels a littlebit like a concert. Like a party, you know things feel light. They just work,and your and and just like a party, especially if you're hosting the party,there's a lot of shit going wrong behind the seats. You know like the kidyou know, you're trying to like get the food out on time and do the whateverand then how it looks often is also as you describe like people are reallyengaging with the thing and what you're...

...hearing a lot is. I can't get this anywhere else. This doesa thing for me that nothing else does for me because if they're like hey,this is just like x, but it's less expensive, like that's cool, but nowyou're kind of in a different game. Now you it's like a cost competitivenessgame, but you know what the really powerful proc market fit is often likei'm getting a thing or experience that i cannot get any other way and i cansee that with your product. So you guys are obviously a hardware product. Youtake software incredibly seriously and you've created some skills or aroundmusic and lighting and so forth. And so i have some core confidency questionsin a second. But for now talk about like leaving yourself theroom to make iterations as you learn, so you ship a million units or whatever,and you learn somethin like how do you? What does it look like to for a companythat got a ship hard where cannot easily ship updates? And yet you wantto leave yourself room like meaningful, upgrade paths in the future. How do youguys think about that like we're, always listening to our users and we'regetting feedback like even at the end of it work out? We s like? Did you likethis or where did like? If you check out? Where did you hear about this, butthen we have like product managers on the team, they're actually calling ourcustomers and like getting feedback of like? What's your favorite thing aboutlight boxer? What's the thing you hate about it right and like bringing upthose like powerful emotions that can kind of guide what we're working onnext, we have like a strong desire to be like a household name likehey, i light box today and like owning immersive fitness, and so it's like.How do we do that? How do we like push the boundaries on what we're buildingto make sure that no one else can like step into our ring? No pun intended,but but, like basically saying like how do we push our own boundaries to ownlike where we want to grow and like where we see the market ground going,and i think just like we change like the genres of music to meet ourcustomers and who's purchasing, like maybe our early customers really loved,bon jovi and are like later customers like it, a sap rocky way, mort likeright. So there's this balance in terms of like how we meet the needs ofeveryone like you, can't you try to serve a bunch of masters, you're notgoing to you're not going to be the best at any one of them right so, likeyou have to pick a lane that you know you can own and that you know you canbe the best at. What's this saying it's like beingdifferent, isn't always better, but the best is always different right. So,like there's a reason why there's something like there's a reason i thebest is like the best right and so like you have to own that lane and you mightnot be good at something, but you definitely in of stuff. That's a perfect segue to the lasttopic that i wanted to ask you about...

...it's something that, like we're, reallypassionate about it very and it's often the thing that people come to us to tryto solve for this idea of what i call the wrong side of impossible. You knowso to be different, technically different, so you're for your productto be technically different. You have to havesolved something that started on the wrong side of impossible and youfigured it out and your product is the thing that does the thing and you knowbecause it's impossible up to that point like it's usually pretty hard,have a lot of questions on this. But to start with, is there a problem that orproblems that you feel like you guys had to address or have addressed thatstarted on the wrong side of impossible yeah? I mean, i think, going back tothat product, reliability and like punching a computer screen like like we wanted to make something thatis durable, like the lit. The last thing you want is like yeah the samebrakes because, like that bad review, early on is like the worst thing it canlike, kill your company so like, as i was saying, i got with like the packseast, where i was sattering like that sucks, but i definitely learned how notto make the product. So i think you look at light box and you're like. Whydoes it look like this right, like? Why is looks like something out of like analien verse, predator movie sometimes- and i think, like that's. Probably oneof our biggest hurdles is educating people like why it's better and why itlooks the way it does, but a part on the other part of that is like it doesthat to not because it just. We think it looks cool, but it fills a reason oflike having a curve circuit board. We are having a lot of like elle des popup top off or like another reason. The other thing is like: oh having a boardwith a bunch of connectors. You think like okay, you have this repeating, setsix segments with like four censers and a runway of led lights. You say anyengineer would say like okay, you should just have like repeat that foreconomies of scale, six of them and just have a connector where they allconnect in for us, we learned like. Oh, we need to make a giant pcb, probablythe biggest pcb, like i've ever seen a one year so like this is a giant board andanyone ud be like you, that's so dumb like. Why would you make a board thatbig, that's a really expensive and it just like? You could shrink it intolike six segments, but we learned that connectors are reallyexpensive and connectors are also like the most most likely place to fail for sure, andso, when you're developing this thing, we learned to stay away from that kindof stuff and the same thing with the programming and the software there's alot of you think it should be done lingley and then you just have toadjust and so now and then then we additionalbenefits like punching a curved surface. Maybe punching bags also were trying tosolve this single like. How do you make something that someone could punch, andso they just like made a curds curve. Cylinder turns out like punching atcurvae, is not really great for your...

...wrists because, like every punch, youkind of rolling so press now i had this benefit of like way less injuries and-and it's it's a much better punching experience- and we hear this from fromsome of the pro boxers that try it up as well wrong side of impossible got to have astrong team. You doing a thing, a hard thing, never been done thing but you'realso searching for product market fit at the same time, because you haven'tquite landed there, it's elusive, often in the early days. How do you? How didyou guys think about building out the core team, so you're saying hey? Wethink we're going to do something that looks and feels like this, a punchalcomputer that serves his boxing market, we're not exactly sure where music andlighting and these things fall and everything, but, like probably, we havea pretty good idea. How did you guys think about core commences the coreteam versus okay, here's some areas that are very important, but we're notgoing to be excellent or we're not going to be able to be excellent, sowe're going to find a strong partner in those areas. How did light boxer thinkabout team in the early days and core comp? Yes, i think so team. You need tohave a team. You can trust, because you can't do everything and so like. I think we were taught- and i were luckybecause we're so different that we both fit like i kind of feel like puzzlepieces like places in i'm deficient. He likecatches up and advice versa, so i think that was like having a strong cofounder and having like being able to form an a team early on that also fitsright. So i'm a tech, id mechanical is my background. So, like obviously thefirst two next hires are like a software guy and an electrical engineerright and so building out a team to in areas that maybe you weren't so strongin, but can trust other folks, like kind of obvious, but at the same timelike looking at what are what is the product of er building right, so we'rebuilding a media company because we have all the the mark. We have all this content and music andvideo of trainers and stuff. So that is one area that i have no experience init, and then we also have like we have the software, the software there'sthree products: hardware, software and digital content, so like basicallyhaving leaders in each of those groups that own it, but then like there areother places like like where, like you're saying, you have to lean onfolks that maybe you can't even afford so like we did a lot of contractorsthat we'd, eventually hired and like so for, like our music attorney, forexample, like she's she's, an expert in navigating thosekind of the landscapes of like not getting sued right and just likefinding people. You can trust, and these these things and saying like okay,we like we can't afford you full time, but we'll hire you like ten hours aweek or something, and we just need, give us a road map that is smart andthen we'll like we'll fill it in the best weekend. And so i think that'slike a big thing. That d we did very...

...nimbly so that we didn't just like burnall this money up front like we know we're. No we're deficient here willhire some contractors and make it work that way. One of the you know i interview a lotof people here on the program and one of the trends. I've noticed is there's reallytwo kinds of founders of hardware tech companies. One is very nose downfocused on their own product. You know the world could be blown up around themand they're like light boxer is where my hundred percent focus is, and thenyou have these like. I guess i would call him like industry enthusiasts andthey are very aware of the ecosystem and what other companies are up to, andmaybe they see people at trade shows and so forth, and they say hey. Youknow, you know they know people in some ofthese adjacent spaces that also make consumer products which wot would yousay like how do you think about how is jeff looking at the space and, ifyou're, that you know, i guess, regardless of which type you consideryourself? Is there a product or company? You know in the consumer io t worldthat you're a fan of out there that especially like bonus points. If it'sone nobody's talking about, i think i've more so i think early on, iwas like the heads down like the world, could explode and, like i was just like.I have to build this thing. We have to get it out there and i was just likethinking of tooling and all this like making sure we got it right when we hitthat like product market fit moment like i had to switch gears and likelike put my marketing cap on and marketing is like the biggest spent byfar. If we want to be the company we know we can be, we have to like get outthere in the while, and so i've had to definitely switch. My hats make surethat we're doing that. We're spending that money correctly. So it'sdefinitely changed. I think esle we come out with other products, it willprobably keep going back and forth and i hope that, like my team can supportthat other products. I mentioned my friends: recon tools he's got like thism. One caliber, which is, i think, was the coolest thing. Is this this devicethat really it's like tape? Measures haven'tchanged forever, and this is like a digital tape measure that goes on amitrosanoff and bringing technology to a space that it hasn't been super tectconscious. I guess, like that kind of stuff hasn't changed a long time, so ithink that kind of stuff in it, as i mentioned, like he kind of bootstrapped,it did it through kickstarter and it's it's a really cool product, biggercompany that i love and i get made fun of a lot for talking about. It is likerioba tools which is like you know, they're not like it's not like youthink i like people are, can be very snobby with their tools and like thewall through milwaukee guy or whatever. I like just having like a tool for anythat moment when you like, oh shout, i wish i had this tool and so like theyalways are coming out with goofy funny...

...like different product lines. But thebest thing is like the batter, the batteries that they have like all workacross all that different tools, and i ended up using a lot of their batterieson my kids, like power, wheels and stuff and like doing home projects withthem and hacking them into stuff, and they just built so well like i can, instead of buying a new power ofbattery, i just like wire in like one of the eighteen volt batteries, andthen that that runs the kids power wheels and i can quickly swap them out.So i think it's life if luke was on the show today, we do not recommend that you get into power tool,battery packs and start to aline, but yeah. So de wall users out there. Youare on notice, roob hates going to hate right now. Thehaters are going to hate because this for especially for a certain type ofdad, you know this is like a very passionate subject that the world willnever agree on. But now- and i i just wanted to give a shout to recon. Sothis is recon r, ee, ko n. I had to look them up to now, but if you're outthere in tv land- and you want to learn about a new product, they are our shoutof the day, not jeff. We we're way over time man.This has been an awesome interview if folks out, there want to keep up withyou and the light boxer story. What's a good way to do that, all our handlesare just at light. Boxer, so check us on instagram, actually were tick tackvery focused on tech, tok, surprising and we've seen a lot of trends gettingbuilt in the ticktock world, which you asked me if i would say that six monthsago and say you're crazy, but yeah at light box or air fall, find us on lightboxo and check us out. Okay. So if you are out there- and you are over fiftyyears old locate a millennial, they will help you navigate tick, tock andlight boxer is spilled, lite, not light late boxerjeff. It's been awesome manthanks for being on the show it we appreciate you being here today thanksa bunch appreciate. I have a great day all right that everybody thanks forlistening, we'll see you guys on the internet. You shouldn't have to worry about iotprojects dragging on or unreliable vendors. You've got enough on yourplate. The right team of engineers and project managers can change a pilotamoment for your business into your competitive edge. Various close knitcrew of ambitious problem, solvers, continuous improvers and curiousbuilders know how to turn your ideas into a reality on time and up to yourstandards, with a focus on mitigating risk and maximizing opportunity willhelp you build an io t solution that you can hang your hat on. Let's bringyour iot idea to life, learn more it very possible com. You've been listening to over the airiot connected devices and the journey,...

...if you enjoy to day's episode, makesure to hit subscribe in your favorite podcast player and give us a rating.Have a question or an idea for a future episode. Send it to podcast at verypossible com. See you next time. I.

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